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Calico Basin 11/22; your love note

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Joe Vitti · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 247

My friend Sara and I wanted to reach out to whom ever left the sweet missive on the windshield of my orange Tacoma (NY plates) today. To remind, the note was on a napkin and read; “I hope you f*ckers get ball cancer, don’t climb on wet rock”. While we appreciate the sentiment, you should know that we went for an awesome hike today that included the Calico Tanks, Turtlehead, the drainage north of TH and wrap around to Kraft Mountain. We had hoped to climb but quickly realized the rock was soaked and instead opted for adventurous hike. Yesterday we climbed limestone at the Gun Club.
Anyhow, before you scribble such a nasty gram you may want to be sure you accuse the right people. You should also be glad we didn’t cross paths while you were dropping this on my car because it totally pissed us off, at the time. Now, of course we are calm and simply hope to encourage you to get beck on your meds, dude. (ps, Sara can’t get “ball cancer”).

John Hegyes · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 5,549

The rain brings out the straight-up bat-shit CRAZY people in this town. Last season, people were threatening all sorts of violence toward climbers on (allegedly) wet rock.

Matt N · · Santa Barbara, CA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 394

I don't have a problem with this.

Saw some sportos climbing today on the wetness, while we drove the loop.

The fact that you didn't climb vindicates you. Pass on the hate to those that did climb.

Joe Vitti · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 247

Right, I’ll join right in passing on hate. Solid.

Connor FM · · Burlington, VT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 56
Matt N wrote: I don't have a problem with this.

Saw some sportos climbing today on the wetness, while we drove the loop.

The fact that you didn't climb vindicates you. Pass on the hate to those that did climb.

I have several problems with all of this.

First off, you were driving on the loop, while the asphalt was presumably still wet, potentially permanently damaging the road it in its dampened state.

Secondly, hoping someone gets "ball cancer" is a gender noninclusive statement.  As Joe pointed out, Sara is, allegedly, unable to get ball cancer. If the offender wrote that they hoped someone gets "an unspecified-genitalia cancer," they would have a better foot to stand on, but instead they come off as sexist, assuming that only men have balls.

Thirdly, it's pretty half-assed and passive-aggressive just leaving a napkin note, when you can hike into Calico Basin and address the offenders yourself, potentially without even wishing that they get any kind of cancer.

Fourthly, having met and known Joe a fair handful of times, he doesn't need your vindication, he's a solid guy and guide.  Sara on the other hand, I haven't met her, nor even heard of this lady. She could very well have climbed wet rock that day while Joe wasn't looking, so I'll reserve my judgement on whether or not she should get ball cancer.

Fifthly, the term "sportos" is a loaded, prejudiced term for climbers that ignore regional ethics and feel they own the place, and I don't appreciate the usage of that kind of language on a forum known for its inclusivity and open-mindedness.

I hope all of you have a good, long look at yourselves, and feel ashamed of your opinions and lifestyle, especially Sara, who may have climbed wet rock without Joe looking and shaming her.
Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,543
Matt N wrote: I don't have a problem with this.

Saw some sportos climbing today on the wetness, while we drove the loop.

The fact that you didn't climb vindicates you. Pass on the hate to those that did climb.

I guess I'm with Matt, or at least would rather we say/do *something* rather than let them ruin it for everyone.  Not sure I'd leave that tone of message, but to each their own.

Joe, as I learned long ago -- if it doesn't apply, let it fly.  Meaning, you weren't climbing wet rock so it was wasted effort.  I am curious to know why you felt the need to start this thread, and more curious why you thought it was going to be dry after so much rain fell Wednesday and light rain fell / was cloudy / very little wind Thursday.  Are you "the moment it's socially acceptable I'm on that rock" wet rock avoiding climber?
mpech · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 2

maybe the note is less aggressive than you thought? They  wanted you to get testicular cancer, which is usually very treatable. I'd be concerned if the note wanted you to get high-grade prostate cancer. 

Fehim Hasecic · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 170
Joe Vitti wrote: My friend Sara and I wanted to reach out to whom ever left the sweet missive on the windshield of my orange Tacoma (NY plates) today. To remind, the note was on a napkin and read; “I hope you f*ckers get ball cancer, don’t climb on wet rock”. While we appreciate the sentiment, you should know that we went for an awesome hike today that included the Calico Tanks, Turtlehead, the drainage north of TH and wrap around to Kraft Mountain. We had hoped to climb but quickly realized the rock was soaked and instead opted for adventurous hike. Yesterday we climbed limestone at the Gun Club.
Anyhow, before you scribble such a nasty gram you may want to be sure you accuse the right people. You should also be glad we didn’t cross paths while you were dropping this on my car because it totally pissed us off, at the time. Now, of course we are calm and simply hope to encourage you to get beck on your meds, dude. (ps, Sara can’t get “ball cancer”).

Why so aggro bro? 

Charlie S · · Ogden, UT · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 2,146

I'd make a wager that the person who left the note likely has a peace symbol, "coexist", and eARTh bumper sticker spread on their car.  Oh, the irony of this climbing peace-and-love "community"!

5.Seven Kevin · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 0
Charlie S wrote: Oh, the irony of this climbing peace-and-love "community"!

You shut your freaking Face Hole you nerd!!1

PNW Choss · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 0

Assuming you had crossed paths with the angry note leaving eco-warrior what would you have done? Were you gonna beat them up like a big tough guy over a note? Seems like a non event hardly worth mentioning. Stop trying to act like a victim. If the note didn't apply throw it away and move on hardly something to get worked up about. 

budman · · Moab,UT · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 10

Hey Joe, It was a study hall note just pass it on to the intended.  Next time I'm in The Gunks I'll buy you a beer at the Brauhaus for being a good dude for not climbing after the rain we had.

Curt Veldhuisen · · Bellingham, WA · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 862

Despite the best intentions, making false accusations is BS, as are many of the above arguments rationalizing it. Instead, the note writer should get a megaphone and confront the actual violators in the act. Problem solved, accurately.

Embarrassed to say · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 5

Maybe the world needs some more good ol' fashioned nose punching? I'm tired of the pansies...but the first thing you'd need is a lawyer and a bail out of jail. I love climbing but the whole virtue signaling, social justice but still inherently a passive aggressive asshole crap is wearing on me. No too mention does anyone have a moderate viewpoint on anything anymore?

Slay away...

Not Burchey LOL · · Unknown Hometown · Joined 20 days ago · Points: 0

Speaking of lawyers, does anyone post and then delete more than Caughtinside?

Joe Vitti · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 247
PNW Choss wrote: Assuming you had crossed paths with the angry note leaving eco-warrior what would you have done? Were you gonna beat them up like a big tough guy over a note? Seems like a non event hardly worth mentioning. Stop trying to act like a victim. If the note didn't apply throw it away and move on hardly something to get worked up about. 

Tru, I’m not like that anymore. It did raise b/p though. Moving on....

Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 255
Connor FM wrote:

I have several problems with all of this.

First off, you were driving on the loop, while the asphalt was presumably still wet, potentially permanently damaging the road it in its dampened state.

Secondly, hoping someone gets "ball cancer" is a gender noninclusive statement.  As Joe pointed out, Sara is, allegedly, unable to get ball cancer. If the offender wrote that they hoped someone gets "an unspecified-genitalia cancer," they would have a better foot to stand on, but instead they come off as sexist, assuming that only men have balls.

Thirdly, it's pretty half-assed and passive-aggressive just leaving a napkin note, when you can hike into Calico Basin and address the offenders yourself, potentially without even wishing that they get any kind of cancer.

Fourthly, having met and known Joe a fair handful of times, he doesn't need your vindication, he's a solid guy and guide.  Sara on the other hand, I haven't met her, nor even heard of this lady. She could very well have climbed wet rock that day while Joe wasn't looking, so I'll reserve my judgement on whether or not she should get ball cancer.

Fifthly, the term "sportos" is a loaded, prejudiced term for climbers that ignore regional ethics and feel they own the place, and I don't appreciate the usage of that kind of language on a forum known for its inclusivity and open-mindedness.

I hope all of you have a good, long look at yourselves, and feel ashamed of your opinions and lifestyle, especially Sara, who may have climbed wet rock without Joe looking and shaming her.

Cornelius? Is that you?

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,543
Mick wrote: Glad the note writers chose a less destructive method of expressing their uninformed, ignorant and misplaced outrage but how long until they decide that vandalizing someone’s vehicle might send a stronger message?

I agree about not wanting this to devolve into a police state, but one nagging question remains unanswered - what were (supposedly) experienced climbers* doing out on Friday, anyway?  There was a lot of bad decision making between putting gear in car, taking gear out of car, and transporting gear to the crag (which they, by their own account, never actually used).  Psychology of desperation, bad judgment, or perhaps not the whole story (or a bit of all three)?  Had I seen them with climbing gear cross my path Friday I would certainly have said something, because anyone whose best thinking when leaving the car was that there was a remote chance would have been spoken to.

The one caveat I want to add to all this - there's a chance (unsure how strong) that some of the more overhanging routes may have been dry.  But based on all other accounts, even that was unlikely.

* I just looked at Joe's profile, and it doesn't appear he is local although most of his ticks are in Southern Nevada.
________________

It looks like it's time to dust this off (forgot I even had the text file ready on my desktop...)...

Red Rock weather links below.  The rain gauge is at the visitor's center area, so it's not measuring the actual weather in the canyons.  But it's the only gauge we have, and at least gives you some idea if you should even bother.  Takes at least a couple days after 0.10+" rain for all the rock to be dry.  Exposed areas that see a lot of sun perhaps less time.

Forecast: https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=36.0983&lon=-115.4675

Recent rainfall [also shows percent of sun and wind to help guestimate rate of drying]: https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/mesowest/getobext.php?wfo=vef&sid=RRKN2&num=3000&raw=0&dbn=m
SeƱor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10

I always thought the rule was that if it's dry enough for a note written on a napkin to stay legible then climb on!

Locals Only · · Sin City · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

Dear Joe,
Sorry to hear about your experience at our wonderful Conservation Area last week. You, being a guide & resident of NY, are likely hyper aware that people protect their backyards, particularly when they are like Red Rock, delicate: ecologically & geologically. As to the scribbles and intent of the note, I cannot speak to that. My years of medical experience dictate ball cancer is hella curable and super common. Your high blood pressure is likely more worrisome at your age. Keep up with the prostate exams and breathe... Good job.

Having been in Calico that day for unrelated purposes; I couldn’t have missed your truck, parked solo in front of the approach to Physical Graffiti before 9 AM. I (as well as 4+ other people @ the kraft parking lot) noticed two climbers attempting Big Bad Wolf. I suspect, since your truck was THE ONLY TRUCK on the gravel “lot” in front of that wall (with few, if any cars at both Kraft & Red Springs), it likely appeared as a foregone conclusion to anyone who passed by that the driver of the orange truck with NY plates was the climbing culprit.

We watched as the two climbers (I recall leader had an orange helmet & belayer had a blue one) bailed off of Big Bad Wolf (FA team should inspect for damage). This was very shocking, given our weather data indicated it was pouring rain hours before. (In 48 hours we got 1/10th of our annual precip, 1.5” total accumulation.) NOTHING was dry (FYI for visitors to SoNV: winds & humidity affect rock friability [even overhangs], plus there is always seepage).

My point here: I’m interested in knowing how us locals encourage non locals (guides like yourself & regular Joes [pun intended]) to speak up (AMGA ethics style) about folks who are impacting our desert climbing areas? Hiking to the base and fist fighting seems archaic & overly dramatic. But.... These routes aren’t forever, especially if people climb on them when wet. Nor is it good for our SoNV community & relationships built with BLM and other partnering agencies to have sportos causing damage to resource and person.

Again, I’m curious why someone who guides, isn’t local, was possibly guiding that day(?), had the only truck in the lot, and admitted to having taken gear to the base of the route (but by your account “opted” out...maybe after one pitch?), decided to even consider climbing that day? If it’s for a buck, I get it... we all have to eat. So maybe we pitch into a fund and sit out tables with awnings for guides who can’t climb with their pushy clients, or holiday climbers who’s plans are ruined. Y’all can get coffee & a bagel on a rainy (or post rain) day & meet a local! :) A community & conservation approach.

If it wasn’t you, don’t start a war man. You seem to have guided lots here and likely profited on Red Rock routes. Pay it back/forward! If it was you: at least we all know what you drive now! :) Maybe we can all leave love notes on your car when you're at Red Rock. Regardless be an ally to conservation & pass on the message: DON’T CLIMB AFTER RAIN!!*

*I also noticed your social media feeds increased dramatically with that sentiment (don't climb after rain) after you posted here, so kuddos to you brother! Maybe it’s overcompensation or guilt (I hope not) or this too resonates with you (I hope so!). Maybe a little of both? Whatever the case, keep on advocating for no climbing after the rains please and thank you!

Final note, there were folks who certainly had cameras and binoculars that day... that’s partially how we knew colors of helmets... maybe YOU become vindicated soon (or not?). REMINDER TO US ALL: it’s the 21st century, lets photo document these unethical acts so there is no debating who the “F**ker” is that will get "ball cancer". I think this & related posts should focus on “DON’T THINK ABOUT CLIMBING AFTER RAINS.” I get it’s your holiday vacation, that sucks. But when you come back it’ll still be here; if you’re a guide you’ll be here next week and in the meantime I’ll meet you at the flagpole... by Dunkin Donuts where I’ll buy you coffee & a donut for doing the ethical thing.. then you too can troll this forum.

Don’t climb on wet sandstone.
-in the desert, even morally higher grounds still get soaked.

mpech · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 2

The plot thickens!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Nevada
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