There is no excuse for posting a new route/boulder/area without a picture.

Darren Mabe wrote: There's no excuse why you can't use your real name

Nothing is ever deleted from the Internet and it would be terrible if some stupid comment made decades ago comes back to haunt you and ruin your life?

I recently was in South Dakota at the VC.  I would have loved to have a GPS pin for where the trail starts and maybe one or two marking the path taken to get to the climbing.  The vegetation is heavy and I guess the no motorized vehicle signs have been moved since the description was put in. This left me with a lot of trudging and very little actual climbing.  If we could pin things with our phone GPS from the app while out of service for upload latter these could be downloaded by others before they go on their trip.  I was quite annoyed with an alpine start trying to get shade only to spend the morning hours trying to find the climbing.

Darren Mabe wrote: There's no excuse why you can't use your real name

The security of this site is extremely suspect, and gathering Personally Identifiable Information about you: your real name, and location would be trivially easy to someone who motivated enough to do so, and that information could then be sold to a third party located who-knows-where, which can then be tied to other information culled elsewhere, including your birthday, age, etc and then used to exploit weaknesses in systems like online banking and online stores? 

Good information spreads people out.  A well taken photo and description of an otherwise worthless climb will draw people to it.  

As things get more crowded, and with access issues abound - the more important good and clear information is.

Also, nothing about this site is "free", there are many man-centuries of work from the climbing community behind the route database.  I'm thinking REI paid a lot of money for it, and continues to.  

I'm all for a minimum bar for route submission.  I don't see OP's comments as abrasive at all - more humorous and to the point.

316 SS Wedgie wrote: The description of this forum is, "Climbing-related topics that don't fit elsewhere. Non-climbing related posts go in Community forum!"

If not here then where should it have been posted señor off topic?

Discuss Mountainproject.com

Ok, so as I am guilty of exactly this, I'll explain why I have posted areas and routes without photos.
I rarely take photos when I climb, and when I do, it's the rare circumstance when there are three of us and I can wander off and take a half way decent photo of one of my partners.  I'm kind of never thinking about Mountain Project when I'm actually out climbing.  And I very often do not look in the database in advance of a day out to get any info about my climbing objectives.

When I get back from a trip or a day out, at some point I use the routes in the MP Route database as a tracking device for my own climbing.  That is when I sometimes realize the area or route doesn't currently exist on MP.  I add it so that other people can use the database the same way I do, not as a locating function, not as a substitute for a local guidebook (because most of the routes I do are already in a guidebook, or near enough to something published in a guidebook that they will be locatable), but so that people can track and comment on routes for themselves and for the safety of others.  It takes effort to add an area and a route, and once it's in there it can easily be improved by others.

But I agree that a photo reference would add value, and I always have a phone with me, so it's a good idea to take a sec to take a reference photo..  Just have to remember to do it when I am in the moment of climbing and not thinking about the Internet.

phylp wrote: Ok, so as I am guilty of exactly this, I'll explain why I have posted areas and routes without photos.
I rarely take photos when I climb, and when I do, it's the rare circumstance when there are three of us and I can wander off and take a half way decent photo of one of my partners.  I'm kind of never thinking about Mountain Project when I'm actually out climbing.  And I very often do not look in the database in advance of a day out to get any info about my climbing objectives.

When I get back from a trip or a day out, at some point I use the routes in the MP Route database as a tracking device for my own climbing.  That is when I sometimes realize the area or route doesn't currently exist on MP.  I add it so that other people can use the database the same way I do, not as a locating function, not as a substitute for a local guidebook (because most of the routes I do are already in a guidebook, or near enough to something published in a guidebook that they will be locatable), but so that people can track and comment on routes for themselves and for the safety of others.  It takes effort to add an area and a route, and once it's in there it can easily be improved by others.

But I agree that a photo reference would add value, and I always have a phone with me, so it's a good idea to take a sec to take a reference photo..  Just have to remember to do it when I am in the moment of climbing and not thinking about the Internet.

You must be constantly thinking about the internet.  YOu must constantly be thinking about MP.  Go out into the world and make it so.

If, like you said, you very frequently add climbs to MP than you are aware of that. It takes less than 10 seconds to take a picture. I takes another 10 seconds to add that picture with your description (excluding topo overlay). The "effort" it takes to add a route is 5 minutes or less of typing at a computer or phone.

If you are adding climbs to MP it is a pretty safe assumption that you are doing it for others to come climb, and expecting others to come along and finish the work is misguided.

Also Marc H, I guess that it would fit slightly in that other forum but I believe it is actually a much better fit here. You can always ignore it and keep scrolling if you don;t actually have any on-topic input mmmkay.

Edit: Darren thats a dick move

Guy Keesee wrote:
I hate it when people post up photos of beautiful stuff - then wont tell ya where it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
A dirt road runs right next to it.   
Still a project!  

Looks like a classic chossy rock in the sierra. It should be called the LOCALS ONLY choss dyno.

Its all obviously a conspiracy by big guidebook companies.
Save paper, take them down. 

I’m here advocating for the route database to be frozen, culled or eliminated.   People being able to easily find the base of climb is unimportant.  Wandering the bush with heaps of heavy climbing gear is the only true way toward salvation.

Long Ranger wrote:

The security of this site is extremely suspect, and gathering Personally Identifiable Information about you: your real name, and location would be trivially easy to someone who motivated enough to do so, and that information could then be sold to a third party located who-knows-where, which can then be tied to other information culled elsewhere, including your birthday, age, etc and then used to exploit weaknesses in systems like online banking and online stores? 

You should check out The Age of AI.  It premiered on frontline the other night.  The net knows more about you than you do, regardless of pseudonyms.  It knows where you are and where you’re going; what you’re thinking and how you’re feeling.  It knows what you’re doing now, soon, and later.  It has millions pieces data on you, then uses AI algorithms to fill in the blanks.

Jim Turner wrote:

You should check out The Age of AI.  It premiered on frontline the other night.  The net knows more about you than you do, regardless of pseudonyms.  It knows where you are and where you’re going; what you’re thinking and how you’re feeling.  It knows what you’re doing now, soon, and later.  It has millions pieces data on you, then uses AI algorithms to fill in the blanks.

I do a lot of work in online-facing software, security, and quality assurance, so I am aware of the issues. MP can't even get a popup survery form for an altogether different site coded right. This gives me little confidence over any PII they have on me.

Long Ranger wrote:

Nothing is ever deleted from the Internet

Always thought this was true ... until all Supertopo trip reports, photos, and forums posts disappeared from archive.org earlier this year. What a shame

Reformed Troll wrote:

You don't know what a dick move is.

The dude sprays like you wouldn't believe - he's not hiding.

Google is hard

I spray how terrible I am at climbing, which is very true. But do I love doing it? Oh yeah. I'll be out toproping 5.7 tomorrow - hope you are free (soon) and can get out there doing what you're stoked on, too.

If OP is sincere: I've got FAs on MP, maybe 10-15 of them, at well traveled areas. Those postings lets people know the line has been done, and crucial safety details. Got more FAs not on MP, at obscure areas not on MP. They have anchors, sometimes bolts, which imply the line has been done. I don't put them on MP because the main reason I out routes on MP is to serve notice a line has been done so it doesn't get retrobolted or messed with (more likely at well traveled areas, right?) Some routes have photos I added, and some don't. But like every other climber who put blood sweat time and money into finding and establishing routes other people eventually climbed, I owe you nothing. so be even the slightest bit grateful for the route left behind. If you can't find the route without a photo, maybe consider you don't have the skills to find or climb it, and accept that you should stick to climbs with photos to lead you to the base and then the anchor. Like, if the description seems really (too) vague, whose fault is it if you can't even find the cliff? Are you the guy who would follow GPS off a cliff?

If OP is trolling: thanks for the free entertainment. Even if you didn't provide a photo, I was able to find the humor.

It's not. I don't personally care. I list my name in my MP Profile so there's no doxxing going on. But that was a choice I made. Some people choose not to, and I can understand why.

Bill Schick wrote: Good information spreads people out.  A well taken photo and description of an otherwise worthless climb will draw people to it.  

I agree, and this is how i see it as well. More info and routes gives people something to do besides the obvious classics, and posting obscurities spreads the crowds out. I know some people are like "ssshhhh" about certain crags, even really well known ones (such as index) because they don't want crowds of people on their favorite areas/routes but there are only so many climbers and if they disperse due to more information, the chance of getting on a classic, or having a crag to yourself INCREASES. And well thought out approach notes, gear recommendations, and pictures are critical. 

I still do enjoy a little mystery when hunting for posted obscurities, however. 

If I put a climb up, I get to decide what info I place here. Nobody else. I usually put a photo though, because I enjoy documenting the climb. Others do not. I respect that and I’m grateful for their posts anyway.

A friend of mine, who happens to be one of the most prolific climbers in New England, puts minimal info in a new route post. He does this for a variety of reasons. He gives clues. He also logs hundreds of climbs in any given year. He likes folks to share in the adventure. I like the adventure. My friends like it. I go hunt his problems down and have a fucking blast doing it. Many others do this too and we are grateful for the breadcrumbs. If that is not what you like, don’t do it. There are not very many rules to this game. Play how you like. Leave the folks alone who see value in a prolific climber leaving hints and clues. We’ll leave you alone regardless. If you want photos and detailed descriptions, you’ll be able to find plenty. Have fun and good luck. 
Don’t forget to be grateful to the folks who post routes you would have otherwise never known about, regardless of the level of detail. If you want detail, go find the climb, and fill in details.

316 SS Wedgie wrote: Damn near everyone has a phone with a camera. I don't care if its pixelated to all hell post a picture if you're going to share a climbing resource on the site. To not do so is incredibly lazy and in my opinion, a picture of said climbing resource should be a requirement. Your 2 sentence description about the gray rock in the woods between 2 trees is not acceptable. I'm so damn tired of clicking on an area or climb just to be greeted by, at best, a sentence or two.

Dude.  Calm down.  Just buy my guidebook!  A LOT of hard work goes into creating a guidebook.  For example, five seconds to take a photo, five seconds to write a short description, and five seconds to put it in order with all of the other climbs (uploading times vary because I spend too much time on MP).

If I posted all of the information on mountainproject.com then my guidebooks wouldn't sell.  I hope you understand.