Will you avoid buying gear made in China now?

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Jordan W wrote:

Sorry you're not getting many serious responses to "I hope China crushes the USA because we don't have enough electric cars". You should travel and abroad and see what the world is like outside of this country to gain a little perspective.

Please feel free  educate us

Ma Ja wrote:

Personally, I hope China runs us into the ground. I cant think of any other way to get the military industrial complex's stranglehold off our nation's purse, and the globe in general. When that time comes, we'll all be wishing we'd spent all our money on infrastructure and developing green energy tech, something China is leading in.

It’s well known the Chinese don’t develop any IP, they steal it. And before you pin any environmental accolades on them, watch Manufactured Landscapes by Edward Burtynsky. (I’m sure there’s plenty of literature too, but a picture is worth 1k words)

all i know is that all of you bash my employer and would shit yourself, if not commit suicide if they cut you off, so.....

Redyns wrote: what can't you live without in your 21st century day-to-day living??

Mp forums? You work for rei?

Someone better tell the guys at metolius they are supporting heinous crimes against humanity by manufacturing climbing gear.

For real though it is nice to be able to buy climbing gear that is made less than a mile from my home, and I would much rather support them than other larger manufacturers

Jordan W wrote:

^^^ these are not serious people.

For real. China just banned the entire NBA in the entire country because the rockets GM tweeted support for taiwan. It took like 2 days. They are a true fascist state, not the strawman some people think the US is.

Jake Jones wrote:

Ha.  Yep.  Some of us have actually earned the right to bash it though, Frank- by writing a blank check with our asses for at least 4 years. :D

Maybe my 4 years of building bombs for “innocent” Iraqis made me numb to how bad the USA is, but what’s going on in china seems worse to me...also I want our economy to do better than China’s. . . Call me a patriot.

https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s23e02-band-in-china

South Park no longer has any record of ever having existed in China because of this one episode that aired less than a week ago

Definitely recommend a watch

Cole D wrote: https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s23e02-band-in-china

South Park no longer has any record of ever having existed in China because of this one episode that aired less than a week ago

Definitely recommend a watch

The nba recanted and decided to support the GM. But in the last few days tiffany's, marriot, blizzard have all chosen $$$ over basic human rights. South park creators are a national treasure and have bigger balls than most

 

Jared Willis wrote:

 in the last few days tiffany's, marriot, blizzard have all chosen $$$

 

Well that sucks, I guess I won’t use those companies anymore :(

For sure, if you want to criticize or take issue with this country, there is LOTS to draw from.
This series on netflix is a fairly decent compilation of some of our greatest hits https://www.netflix.com/title/80127995

That said, when talking about China, the whataboutism is out of control.

I know it's hard to compare one detention camp to the next. one crime against humanity to the next.
At a BARE MINIMUM, we get to talk about these things and try to have an honest conversation about our strengths and weaknesses, where we would like to be headed, etc. That is not a reality in China.

Nivel Egres wrote:

In terms of human rights violations, China is ahead of everyone. On the other hand, the US specializes in a different type of abuse, such as bombing people. Neither practice strikes me as something I should support, to 

So do we not involve ourselves in foreign politics?
What do you define as innocent? I obviously agree there is plenty of collateral damage, but interested who you define as innocent.
Japan attacked the US and it isViewed as a bad thing by most that we retaliated. What was your solution to Japan/Germany?
Are countries and people that genocide their people, slave trades and stone women really innocent?
- For the record I’m a libertarian and don’t support foreign intervention and only support self defense of our nation. 

Oh, crap I just realized why people are so quick to claim that the USA is just as bad as China: they want to rationalize not doing what they know is the right thing.

• Scott Fagen wrote:

Maybe my 4 years of building bombs for “innocent” Iraqis made me numb to how bad the USA is, but what’s going on in china seems worse to me...also I want our economy to do better than China’s. . . Call me a patriot.

I’m just wondering where he “earned” this right to hate on the US that no one else gets. Didn’t see that in any paperwork.

Oh, maybe in some other old government documents where it was granted to Everyone. It’s always funny when people think their militaryService or politicial position gives them some special privilege.
In fact, by saying  “some of us earned” the right to free speech (which is protected under the constitution for all citizens) is in clear disagreement with the Oath of enlistment. 
————I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same————

Being a Patriot was so 2010 apparently

Scott Fagen wrote: Oh, crap I just realized why people are so quick to claim that the USA is just as bad as China: they want to rationalize not doing what they know is the right thing.

I (and others) weren’t making equivalencies, just pointing out that Americans don’t have as much moral high ground as we often are led to believe. We must be willing to address our own human rights issues in a meaningful way, or we provide cover to other nations who use our abuses as a scapegoat. 

I am a patriot. I love America and all the freedoms we have here. I know how amazing a country America can be, which is why I refuse to let it stay where it is. We must continue to push our nation toward our vision of better, more just society. That is true Patriotism. 

Cole D wrote: For sure, if you want to criticize or take issue with this country, there is LOTS to draw from.
This series on netflix is a fairly decent compilation of some of our greatest hits https://www.netflix.com/title/80127995

That said, when talking about China, the whataboutism is out of control.

I know it's hard to compare one detention camp to the next. one crime against humanity to the next.
At a BARE MINIMUM, we get to talk about these things and try to have an honest conversation about our strengths and weaknesses, where we would like to be headed, etc. That is not a reality in China.

I want to be totally clear and say that while I brought up the USA in my initial post, I definitely  didn't mean for it to become whataboutism.  It wasn't the right thing to post in a conversation about China specifically, but I thought it was worth having as part of the broader discussion about how people vote with their money.  

I don't think our own missteps excuse those of other countries and believe that boycott is one of the best tools when it comes to actually trying to change something (money matters).  I think that my point was more that there are companies from countries that aren't currently running concentration camps, namely DMM and as others pointed out, fixe or other spanish companies. Vote with your money!  

Now if someone could please find me hummus not made by an Israeli company that would be awesome

Don't equate governments with the people of any given country.
Governments draw imaginary lines across the globe and declare authority over all those who are within those lines.
Governments are the ones who stop people from crossing those imaginary lines.
It is governments that incite and fight wars.
There us nothing that is moral regarding the State.
The State is the opposite of humanity.
When you defend the State, you are doing so out of a lifetime of state-driven indoctrination.
We are being kept under the authority of whatever state claims that authority, not for our protection, but for theirs.

Nivel Egres wrote:

Why is that a surprise? A business has only one purpose - to make money. Everything else is usually a secondary consideration at best - things like human rights, ecological impact come into play as a matter of public image (at most).  

I think its surprising in this case because these are companies that began in the US but are openly choosing Chinese $$$ over what I would consider basic US values (I know we have problems but it's pretty ugly out there in most of the world comparatively). 

Rob D. wrote: I also think that the bigger issue to many of us on whether to buy local or not is how the manufacturing of those products (and it's delivery to the consumer) impacts the environment (which is very much an issue that I think a lot of climbers care about).  It's one of the reasons that I choose to buy local as much as possible.

I wasn't trying to derail and want to be clear that obviously news coming out of China is deplorable.  I do think that some people tend to put on "local blinders" that makes them believe their own country is acting "less bad" than others which makes their own moral choices easier to rationalize.

It wasn't the right thing to post in a conversation about China specifically  

Can't get a tiny little lick in against country X without apologizing for not attacking the United States, eh?   That's sad that you're apologizing.   And your moral relativism is also sad.