Mountain Project Logo

New late exit permit policy for 2020!

Original Post
phylp · · Upland · Joined May 2015 · Points: 612

No more phone number. What a f/ing drag it’s going to be. I hate the recreation dot gov website. And a fifty cent charge every time!!!

Sorry I can’t link the article.  I’m on the road. 

walmongr · · Gilbert AZ · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 130
Maureen Maguire · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 0

I'm with you..so fed up with recreation.gov....obstructionist thieving

Ashort · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 55

Bummer

I guess I never realized that late exit permits are only good for 2 hours after the loop closes. In the past I have definitely passed that window. Is this a new policy as well?

lou · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 60

bitchin about 50 cents......   really.....    get over it...... geeeeezzzzzzeeeee

there is more serious things goin on in the world ......

greggrylls · · Salt Lake City · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 237

Lou, I think people are more worried about the fact they can't call to get a late permit now.  Easier to make a call than get internet and go through a booking process.  Will have to be done preemptively now which is obnoxious. 

Ashort · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 55
greggrylls wrote: Lou, I think people are more worried about the fact they can't call to get a late permit now.  Easier to make a call than get internet and go through a booking process.  Will have to be done preemptively now which is obnoxious. 

Exactly, especially for international visitors that may not have a phone with internet connectivity. 

Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 5
Ashort wrote: Bummer

I guess I never realized that late exit permits are only good for 2 hours after the loop closes. In the past I have definitely passed that window. Is this a new policy as well?

This is not their intention -- the BLM does understand certain objectives, for certain parties, require an overnight.  We can bring this up with them next time we talk.


We have tested out the system, and it is surprisingly easy and convenient -- but will take some getting used to.  Planning a bit ahead never hurt anyway!
phylp · · Upland · Joined May 2015 · Points: 612
lou wrote: bitchin about 50 cents......   really.....    get over it...... geeeeezzzzzzeeeee

there is more serious things goin on in the world ......

You're right.  The 50 cents doesn't really bother me.  That was a silly thing to bitch about.  The thing that's difficult for visitors like me (I'm there about 2-4 weeks a year or so), is that I only have my cellphone to interact with the internet.  I guess I'll see how klugdy the forms are that we now will need to fill out. I haven't had good experiences with recreation.gov

I personally refuse to leave my credit card info stored with places like this, so the 50 cents means entering all that info every time I use the new late exit system - name, billing address for credit card, credit card, plus all the late exit info.   That's the hassle, entering all the info using the phone everytime rather than just speaking it.  

Ashort · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 55
Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition wrote:

This is not their intention -- the BLM does understand certain objectives, for certain parties, require an overnight.  We can bring this up with them next time we talk.


We have tested out the system, and it is surprisingly easy and convenient -- but will take some getting used to.  Planning a bit ahead never hurt anyway!

Thanks! I am talking about the late exit, not overnight. For example, the loop closes at 5pm in winter, so technically you have to be out by 7pm with the late exit permit. I know that in the past I have gotten out much later than that. Do you expect them to change the 2 hour policy as well as add back in an overnight permit?

mpech · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 2
lou wrote: bitchin about 50 cents......   really.....    get over it...... geeeeezzzzzzeeeee

there is more serious things goin on in the world ......

issues are

1) spotty LTE coverage near red rock-- coverage was already bad enough that there were issues with the call-in permit system
2) don't know how mobile-friendly the website is-- will it actually be possible to deal with the late permit system on your phone?
John Hegyes · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 5,544
Ashort wrote: I guess I never realized that late exit permits are only good for 2 hours after the loop closes. In the past I have definitely passed that window. Is this a new policy as well?

The late exit pass used to be good for three hours. That is what is listed in the two latest climbing guidebooks (Jerry Handren, Roxanna Brock). I guess at some point the BLM chopped an hour off. The new, two hour limit is listed on the BLM Red Rock web page. 

They also apparently rolled back the cut-off time for leaving a phone message from 4:30pm to 3:30pm. 

The voicemail greeting is barely intelligible at times but it also now says on the phone system that permits won't be issued for 24-48 hours after heavy precipitation. That new stipulation seems pretty arbitrary and could be enforced questionably. I wonder if I'm on a climb and get rained on, does that void my permit? It seems to me that if some climbers get caught in a storm, they will have enough things to worry about and a revoked pass should not be one of them.

Moving from a telephone-based to a website-based reservation system is unfortunate for several reasons, most of which are addressed above. People laugh about the bitching about the $0.50 fee, but it is ridiculous that the government has to stoop so low as to collect such a tiny amount. It's a design fault of the website? Fix it! What used to be a free and easy phone call, now involves pulling out a credit card and typing the info in. What if someone doesn't have a card? I wonder if the fifty cent fee even covers the processing charge from the credit card company.

I've said it for years and I know it's not a popular idea, but why does the loop road close at night? Look at the Lake Mead National Recreation Area or the Spring Mountain National Recreation Area. Or Joshua Tree or Death Valley National Parks. These areas manage to stay open 24 hours a day. Some of these areas have toll-booths where you have to pay to get in and if the government doesn't want to staff them at night, then you drive right on through for free.

Go to Red Rock on November 1. The loop road will close at 5pm that day but the sun goes down at 5:45pm and it won't get dark until at least 6:15pm. They can write you a ticket while the sun is still shining and I think that is wrong.

The rules that the BLM lay down on access are pretty bad and now they are getting worse.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
John Hegyes wrote:

I've said it for years and I know it's not a popular idea, but why does the loop road close at night?

You live in Vegas. Can you imagine the party shitshow and bandit camping that would occur if it were open all night?
Artem Vasilyev · · Portland, OR · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 80

On a serious note, has anybody ever gotten ticketed for a late exit? I haven't heard of it happening to anybody yet. Hasn't happened to me, hasn't happened to my friends. Is it all just bark and no bite? 

John Hegyes · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 5,544
Marc801 C wrote: You live in Vegas. Can you imagine the party shitshow and bandit camping that would occur if it were open all night?

Well, the Lake Mead NRA, over on the other side of the Las Vegas Valley, seems to manage okay. I know you're response will be the #1 concern. Other cities and other places deal with it, however.

Next, someone will come on here and say that BLM Red Rock doesn't have the funds to patrol 24 hours a day. Boost their budget, maybe. However, even in broad daylight, after 15 years of living in the area and climbing at Red Rock - I have never, ever, seen a BLM employee patrolling the trails, so where does the money go, anyway? People are already getting away with graffiti during the daytime, how much worse can it get at night?

As a local, I like getting out at night. Especially in the summer, when the crowds have died down. When it's really hot out, the night time is the best time to spend in Red Rock. The loop road closes at 8pm during the summer and there is frequently still some daylight at that time.

People get so set in their thinking, accepting the governments rules without question. I think the loop road access times deserve some serious reconsideration. 
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
FrankPS wrote:

Since there's no camping in the park, any car in there before opening could get a citation. The ranger could drive the loop road every morning to enforce that, right?

We're talking about what might happen if it were open 24/7. There would be no "before opening".

John Hegyes · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 5,544
Artem Vasilyev wrote: On a serious note, has anybody ever gotten ticketed for a late exit? I haven't heard of it happening to anybody yet. Hasn't happened to me, hasn't happened to my friends. Is it all just bark and no bite? 

Absolutely. Between my partners and I, we have gotten several tickets for late exit violations over the years and they are not cheap.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Marc801 C wrote:

We're talking about what might happen if it were open 24/7. There would be no "before opening".

You're fast! I deleted my post after I thought about it a little more. I wasn't quick enough.

I wonder how Joshua Tree handles it? One of the differences is JTNP allows backcountry camping.

Edit: And I haven't heard that J-Tree is a shitshow.
John Hegyes · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 5,544
FrankPS wrote: I wonder how Joshua Tree handles it? One of the differences is JTNP allows backcountry camping.

Edit: And I haven't heard that J-Tree is a shitshow.

Red Rock also allows back-country camping so long as you are above 5,000 feet elevation and you have phoned in for a permit. In 2020 this permit will move to the recreation.gov website as well.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
FrankPS wrote:

You're fast! I deleted my post after I thought about it a little more. I wasn't quick enough.

I wonder how Joshua Tree handles it? One of the differences is JTNP allows backcountry camping.

Edit: And I haven't heard that J-Tree is a shitshow.

Compare the nearby population - both density and demographically.


Yes, the LA basin has a huge population in numbers and density compared to Vegas, but J-Tree isn't only 20 minutes from the Strip.
John Hegyes · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 5,544
Marc801 C wrote:

Compare the nearby population - both density and demographically.


Yes, the LA basin has a huge population in numbers and density compared to Vegas, but J-Tree isn't only 20 minutes from the Strip.

Okay, look at areas close to Los Angeles. 

Griffith Park is open until 10:30pm. 

The beaches say "no loitering after midnight". 

Santa Monica National Recreation Area is open 24 hours.

Santa Rosa and San Jacinto Mountains National Monument is open 24 hours.

I know there is a wide variation of jurisdictions here, but my point is that a 5pm closing time is a joke!
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Nevada
Post a Reply to "New late exit permit policy for 2020!"

Log In to Reply