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New Petzl Dart

Carolyn Kim · · San Francisco Bay Area · Joined Nov 2016 · Points: 50

Heel tabs still too wide on those, and I can’t stand the placement of the straps on the bottom of the lever lock. Previous experience with the old Dartwins. There’s a specific reason why I’m steering away from Petzl heel sections.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,936
Carolyn Kim wrote: Heel tabs still too wide on those, and I can’t stand the placement of the straps on the bottom of the lever lock. Previous experience with the old Dartwins. There’s a specific reason why I’m steering away from Petzl heel sections.

I agree that the heel tab spacing is out of synch with modern boot soles. But considering that the very successful Cassin Bladerunners don't even have heel tabs, is it such a big deal if your boot isn't hard-up against the tabs?

Forthright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 130
Gunkiemike wrote:

I agree that the heel tab spacing is out of synch with modern boot soles. But considering that the very successful Cassin Bladerunners don't even have heel tabs, is it such a big deal if your boot isn't hard-up against the tabs?

Nope

Ven Popov · · Pittsburgh, PA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 56
Carolyn Kim wrote: Has anyone tried combining the front section of the new Darts with the heel section from another brand (for example Grivel or BD)? If so, how well did they fit together, and which center bar did you use?

I recently tried to demo the new Darts at the Ouray Ice Festival. Even after 25 minutes of fiddling with various toe/heel bail hole and center bar adjustments, and asking the Petzl tent for guidance, the fit was absolutely horrid on my women’s Nepal Cubes.The crampons would either fit so loosely a few kicks would dislodge them, or so tightly I could not snap the heel lever in place The main issue was the lack of micro adjustment on the heel section, plus the heel of my boots being too narrow to be held by the heel tabs both laterally and longitudinally. (Yes, I’m aware there are adjustment holes in the heel, those did nothing to help). This combined with the shape of the toe bail made for a dangerously dubious platform. I returned the crampons without using them and went back to my Stingers. I’m not particularly fond of them, but at least they fit solidly.

It’s a pity because I really like the configuration of the front and secondary points of the new Darts.

I just received the Darts and the heel fit really badly to my Bestard boots because the bail tightness is not adjustable at all. Regardless of which heel/bar adjustments I used the heel was too loose or could not snap it, just like you described. I used the back section of my Grivel G12s plus the grivel bar and the fit now is pretty good. The key is that in grivel's you have a wheel that adjusts how high the plastic level sits on the bail, while the petzl one doesn't.

I just saw that the Lynx have a microadjustable heel bail just like the grivels. I might return the Darts and try out the lynx instead.

Carolyn Kim · · San Francisco Bay Area · Joined Nov 2016 · Points: 50

Thank you, Ven, that's very helpful! That's the only response that actually addresses my primary question. Did you use the Petzl or the Grivel center bars?

Ven Popov · · Pittsburgh, PA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 56

The Grivel's. But only because my boot is 44.5 and the petzl ones are too short (they fit only up to 44). Petzl has longer ones but they are sold separatly and I'll try those soon too. The grivel bars work well, but the downside is that they don't have the hex shaped hole on top so you can't use them for changing the front point config

Carolyn Kim · · San Francisco Bay Area · Joined Nov 2016 · Points: 50

Great, thanks for clarifying that, Ven. Time to go order those Dart front sections...

PWZ · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 0
Ven Popov wrote:
I just saw that the Lynx have a microadjustable heel bail just like the grivels. 


not anymore.
Ven Popov · · Pittsburgh, PA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 56

To save weight? Ugh, that's just silly. The fit benefits of the microadjustment far out weigh the weight of that little plastic wheel... 

Lucas deHart · · WNC -> Denver · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 40

I was pretty skeptical of the non-adjusting petzl heel at first, but I've never actually had any problems fitting my lynx, sarken, or irvis crampons to any boot, and I've put them on 6 or 7 (not all mine, mind you), ranging from Salewa Crows to Scarpa Alien RS touring boots. For me, the amount of micro-adjust in the center bar, with the double row of holes and three holes for the rear bail, makes up for the lack of heel adjust vs Grivel or BD crampons. The heel piece is pretty bendy, and sometimes I do really crank it on there, but again, I've never had them just not give a satisfactory fit.

Beyond saving weight, the design definitely makes them better with touring boots. The heel tab is so short that stays out of the way of the lockout lever area much better than any other company's heel. I can see why they did it, but it sucks that it's making problems for some boots. I'll probably pick up a pair of these dart front sections soon.

Karl Henize · · Boulder, CO · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 643

Does anyone have recommendations for non-hooded front points for the darts?

I find that the stock front points do not climb thin, hard, delicate ice very well (i.e., kicking hard is not an option).

MyFeetHurt · · Glenwood, CO · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 10
Karl Henize wrote: Does anyone have recommendations for non-hooded front points for the darts?

I find that the stock front points do not climb thin, hard, delicate ice very well (i.e., kicking hard is not an option).

I was just reading good things about these, might be worth a try.

https://www.sport-steinle.com/frontpoints-overview​​​
AlpineIce · · Upstate, NY · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 255
MyFeetHurt wrote:

I was just reading good things about these, might be worth a try.

https://www.sport-steinle.com/frontpoints-overview

Have you ever ordered from this website before?

Marc-Olivier Chabot · · Gatineau, QC · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 440
Karl Henize wrote: Does anyone have recommendations for non-hooded front points for the darts?

https://www.verticallstore.com/KRUKONOGI_Petzl_Front_Point/p4546831_19522310.aspx

David Maver · · Philadelphia PA · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0
Karl Henize wrote: Does anyone have recommendations for non-hooded front points for the darts?

I find that the stock front points do not climb thin, hard, delicate ice very well (i.e., kicking hard is not an option).

What is a 'non-hooded' front point?

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,936
Karl Henize wrote: Does anyone have recommendations for non-hooded front points for the darts?

I find that the stock front points do not climb thin, hard, delicate ice very well (i.e., kicking hard is not an option).

Non-hooded frontpoints are why I still use my (old) Charlet Grade 8 crampons.

I also file off most of the hood on my Darts. It really seems to help.
MyFeetHurt · · Glenwood, CO · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 10
AlpineIce wrote:

Have you ever ordered from this website before?

I have not, only just recently started hearing about them. I am curious though. 

Karl Henize · · Boulder, CO · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 643

Thanks for the recommendations.  

In addition to the thoughts shared on this thread, a comp climber told me that the competition front points (designed for plywood) perform well on very thin, brittle, ice. 

I think I will start with filing off the hoods of the stock Lynx front points and try to achieve a similar width to the Blade Runner front points.  

Marc-Olivier Chabot · · Gatineau, QC · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 440
MyFeetHurt wrote:

I have not, only just recently started hearing about them. I am curious though. 

Which website? 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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