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What does “Treatment Type: Sheath & Core” mean?


Original Post
Scott Fagen · · Unknown Hometown · Joined 9 days ago · Points: 0

I recently purchased this rope thinking it was a dry treated rope, but Campsaver says: “I apologize for any confusion, but sheath and core doesn't indicate any specific treatment and those ropes are standard.”

Beal Zenith 9.5mm​​​

Matt N · · Santa Barbara, CA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 384

Although Campsaver has some great prices and I've bought many things from them, their product info is unreliable. Many times it will conflict with the product name.

For deals on ropes, try epic TV https://shop.epictv.com/en/products/single-ropes

Good luck trying to get them to give a refund or additional discount. I do think it is so poorly worded, you have a case. Maybe look into credit card protections/benefits? "Item received not as described" or something along those lines... 

Bryce Adamson · · Torrington, CT · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 1,107

If they won't let you return it because it is a climbing rope, it sounds almost like a scam.

Thane Heiner · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2019 · Points: 0

Sheath & Core are really just parts of the rope, but generally they aren't included in listing the kind of treatment unless they're dry treated.

With Campsaver it's always a good idea to double check the info with the manufacturer's site, or you can even chat, call, whatever before ordering and they've pulled items from their warehouse to double check specs for me before.

James P · · Lynnwood, WA · Joined Apr 2019 · Points: 0

Also, if you scroll down:

Malcolm Daly · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 380

The UIAA now has a Water Repellent standard that it quite rigorous. You can find it here:
UIAA Rope Standard

For the last few decades, ever since the advent of “Dry” ropes there was no standardized test. One manufacturer would throw a rope into a bathtub of cold water and, if it stayed afloat for 10 minutes, they’d call it a dry rope. The next manufacturer might require that it stay afloat for 20 minutes in a tub of hot water. There was no way to compare the claims of any of the manufacturers and there was certainly no universal standard. Many of these “dry” ropes would 35-40% of their weight in water.

Despite there continues to be many claims of what I’ll call “sub-dry” ropes such as Beal’s “Dry Cover”, Sterling’s “Dry Core”, and Mammut’s “Protect” series. Be careful of these because they are not tested to any universal standard and there is no basis comparison. Seriously, which is better: a Dry Core or a Dry Cover? At least Mammut doesn’t;t claim any dryness in their Protect series. They just say it will last longer and have videos to prove it.

The only way to tell for sure it it has the UIAA Water Repellent certification is to look at the packaging for some version of this logo:


Also remember, every dry treatment with the exception of the Edelrid Eco Dry is loaded up with teflon or other CFCs. And nobody will tell you what toxic stew it is that they use.

The other thing to remember is that a dry treatment will seriously degrade the performance of your belay/rappel rig. The tests that are done on Assisted Locking Devices like a Grigri or Vergo are done on standard ropes and the rope diameter guidelines on manual devices are just “guidelines” with no comparative tests done. I’m pretty sure that Jim Titt, the DAV, ENSA and Padova have done comparative tests that will support this.

Climb safe,
Mal (fuck, I’m starting to sound like a curmudgeon) Daly
Alex Milton · · Portland, OR · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 0
Malcolm Daly wrote:The other thing to remember is that a dry treatment will seriously degrade the performance of your belay/rappel rig. The tests that are done on Assisted Locking Devices like a Grigri or Vergo are done on standard ropes and the rope diameter guidelines on manual devices are just “guidelines” with no comparative tests done. I’m pretty sure that Jim Titt, the DAV, ENSA and Pandora have done comparative tests that will support this.

I had no idea about this! Thanks Mal. 


Shopping for ropes on campsaver is terrible, it's not even worth the cost savings to me because I don't know what I'm actually buying.
Scott Fagen · · Unknown Hometown · Joined 9 days ago · Points: 0
Alex Milton wrote:

I had no idea about this! Thanks Mal. 


Shopping for ropes on campsaver is terrible, it's not even worth the cost savings to me because I don't know what I'm actually buying.

Thankfully I was able to “convince” them that I was being misled and they said they would give me an additional discount. I really wanted a dry rope in the hopes that the beach environment in Thailand wouldn’t destroy the rope as fast as I’ve heard is possible with a non-dry rope...maybe it won’t matter for a 2 week trip :\

Matt N · · Santa Barbara, CA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 384
Scott Fagen wrote:

Thankfully I was able to “convince” them that I was being misled and they said they would give me an additional discount. I really wanted a dry rope in the hopes that the beach environment in Thailand wouldn’t destroy the rope as fast as I’ve heard is possible with a non-dry rope...maybe it won’t matter for a 2 week trip :\

Won't matter much.

We rapped off a route in the rain recently, with two very nearly new "dry" ropes of different makes. Both were soaked and heavy within minutes.
I do think the dry treatment keeps the rope a bit cleaner for longer and may help it last longer, but even that is pretty subjective. 
Easy Cheese · · Denver, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0
Malcolm Daly wrote: 
Climb safe,
Mal (fuck, I’m starting to sound like a curmudgeon) Daly

Mal - 

Just listened to you on the Sharp End the other week! Great episode: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4ZJunOB5bxI3RMJ4IMDMFF?si=JEnyXbmKTNqaiMfrfCAoCQ

Always good running into you at Neptune :)

Whenever I buy ropes these days I'm always confused as all get out by the descriptions and treatments and how thick do I want it? Bi pattern or center marker? Twins or singles? (Somebody told me recently that nobody uses 'twins' anymore). We recently had one of the new BD 70s and it lasted barely a season. By the time we retired it I was almost too scared to climb on it - it was so soft.

The best way to figure out which rope to buy is surveying your climber friends and getting them to share their opinions. Much like vegans, climber frahnds have no problem talking your ear off about what piece of gear (ropes or otherwise) is best :) 
Aidan Raviv · · South Pasadena, CA · Joined Dec 2017 · Points: 100

I personally like buying stuff from CampSaver even though sometimes their lack of general organization can be an issue. When I buy stuff there I do some cross checking to make sure I'm getting what I want--for example, it seems the Zenith isn't made with a dry treatment at all, so that's a giveaway to me (unless I'm dumb and wrong). In this case it's laid out weird but oftentimes when they have ropes for sale, the treatment is in the little color/style chooser thing (which I realize it isn't here).

You can often save a lot of money by buying from them but it's definitely a grade IV situation buying from them if you don't spend a lot of time looking at gear (just for fun) and know exactly what's out there vs what they're selling.

Hit up customer service and tell them how misleading it was and explain that normally when ropes are labeled as "sheath and core" treated that means the core and sheath are dry treated.  Good luck.

Malcolm Daly · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 380

Hey Easy Cheese,

Love your vegan comment. Yup, you’ll always get a vocal opinion! My basic rope rec’s usually include:

  • Choose a rope made by someone who actually makes ropes, not from a company that jobs it out.  
  • If you’re a sport climber who likes to work routes and TR pitches, choose a rope in the 9.5 to 9.8 range.
  • If you’re climbing multipitch, trad or sport, choose a rope that is 9.1 to 9.5mm. Unless of course you’re multi-pitching whipping like Tommy.
  • A rope with a hard finish like an Edelrid or Mammut will generally produce less rope drag and last longer. 
  • Published rope diameters are guidelines (+/- .2 mm). Weight/Meter is not. 
  • Petzl, some of the Beal and Sterling will usually feel better (softer) and have a lower impact force than a hard rope. 
  • If you think you’ll be climbing in the rain and snow, get a dry rope.
  • Ignore everything else including half-dry (Dry Cover, Dry Core, etc.) sheath stats and fractions of numbers.
  • Climb on the rope that makes you happy.
Other than that, if you go to the European mountains get a set of twin ropes so you can be like everyone else over there.
See you at the shop
Mal
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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