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Does nobody understand BOOTY anymore?

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

 I got chewed out for sawzalling out a mangled stuck cam in crux of a finger crack that I regularly solo.  (gear was in the way of an important jam) the owner wanted their cam back. it had been there several weeks and lots of effort put into cleaning it  by many folks with no luck.   as far as booty goes project draws are not booty. anything left from an accident or rescue is not booty.  stuff lost in the parkinglot is not booty. Gear stashes are not booty.  

 Booty is any gear lost due to the mountain kicking your butt that you have given up efforts to recover.   I once dropped a screw on the Black dike  and since I had intended to hike out rather than rap the route I refused the offer by a following party to accept the return of the booty screw.  I dropped it and had no intention of attempting to recover it therefor it was booty and belonged to the guys behind us.. had I intended to rap the route which is one of the standard decent options then the screw they picked up would not have been booty because I had not given up attempts at recovery at that point.  had I rapped the route, looked for the screw, not found the screw and given up attempts to find the screw the next people to find the screw would then  have found Booty :)

EFS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 50
Tom Sherman wrote: EFS I bet you are as assuming and accusatory in real life as you are on here. Did you read the word anchor? An-chor, as in belay ledge, as in staying there after a pitch. Bet you assumed I was climbing in a group of three also. Bet you assumed I worked on it while managing a top belay until my second showed up and then pridefully went full on when he could takeover the third. Bet you assumed that for me it was more about getting it out than obtaining the piece. Bet you assume a lot of things to push your feeble minded agenda. Like assumed I didn’t try to give it to my followers or that I even use that size piece on my rack. Cool bro, great debate, shit talk what I said in this one now too

ok, if you insist......

trying to free booty while in the middle of belaying someone?  
Tom Sherman · · Bristol, RI · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 417

Think you missed the word feeble this time around. But sure if this is the hill you want to die on, please entertain us

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Tom Sherman wrote: Think you missed the word feeble this time around. But sure if this is the hill you want to die on, please entertain us

You two! Get a room already!

Glen Prior · · Truckee, Ca · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

I managed to fix a .75 C4 on Knapsack Crack at the Leap. (Shame...) If you manage to booty it, of course it's yours, but I'll buy you a beer if you can tell me how you got it out. I went back the next day and spent an hour on it before calling it quits. I felt like I was abandoning a child...

Glen Prior · · Truckee, Ca · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

It's at the p1 belay...Right next to a fixed X4...

Lon Harter · · Reno · Joined May 2018 · Points: 219

Glen how long ago did you leave that C4? and which pitch?


Lon Harter · · Reno · Joined May 2018 · Points: 219

The first Pitch uses a tree for a anchor? you backed up the tree was there an other party on the ledge with you?  What day was this on?  I didn't see any fixed gear did that route last Friday.

Tyler Phillips · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 1,710
m Mobes wrote: Anyone here is welcome to my gear if I leave it behind.


Glen Prior · · Truckee, Ca · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

My bad. It was Deception, pitch one. A full 60 meters out from the base. It's tucked under an expanding flake, right next to an X4. We left it on Friday afternoon, and attempted to get it back on Saturday morning. We waved subsequent climbers through, so that we weren't choking up the climb too badly. A full hour I tried to sweet-talk that cam outta there...

Lon Harter · · Reno · Joined May 2018 · Points: 219

Well now my wife was just talking about running up that route again last time we did that was about 20 years ago.  Was it on Deception direct 5.9 or the 5.6?  my wife and I were on Knapsack last week when you were on Deception I think.

Glen Prior · · Truckee, Ca · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

It was the 5.6, ( double shame). I could wiggle it in every direction, but simply couldn't finagle it out. My girlfriend started getting antsy after an hour, so we moved on. While it was slightly over-cammed when I placed it, It was her magic touch that sealed its fate. In no way am I blaming her. It's just part of the game.

Lon Harter · · Reno · Joined May 2018 · Points: 219

If we make it up to the Leap this week I will grab it if it's still there.  I have never came across a cam at the Leap that I couldn't get extracted. Sometimes the heat of the rock can effect it but it was not hot enough on Friday for that to happen.   The expanding flake is probably were the problem is.  My wife was actually talking about doing this route on last Monday.

Glen Prior · · Truckee, Ca · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

Good Luck!

x15x15 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 215
I felt like I was abandoning a child...
This is the crux of the issue, right here and now. I just don't understand this concept. And I would never spend an hour trying to retrieve a piece. Holy Toledo...

Unless of course I'm 2 days up a route and the piece my partner crammed into the crack, that got stuck, is the piece that we need to make it to the top without dying...
Robert S · · Driftwood, TX · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 365
James Weiss wrote:

"Don't leave what you wouldn't want to be taken. Get on your pulpit and preach all you want, but reality is still reality."

I didn't expect to come on here and instill morals in people that don't have any.

I get that it sucks when people take project draws, but I really don't get why people leave them up when we all know someone else will come and grab them.

- If I say what you are doing is victim shaming, I hope that doesn't make everyone in here assume I'm liberal.

"Do you leave your keys in the ignition when you run in to get a soda? Do you leave your front door unlocked if you live in a "safe" neighborhood?"

- I don't drink soda. 

"Get over yourself. But you probably won't."

This isn't about me, you're just projecting.

This is so lol that it warrants preservation.

"I don't drink soda" probably gets the trophy, though.
Robert S · · Driftwood, TX · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 365
James Weiss wrote:

I don't trad climb. 

Yeah, we know.

And spare us the crap about project draws. You're right in principle but wrong in reality. Do I steal project draws? No. Do I have any empathy for people who leave project draws and then come back to find them gone and then cry on MP? No.

I'm a realist, braj.
Kelly Lawrence · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 25

Your project draws are litter and so are your bolts and hangers (unless they are rap anchors used to minimize tat and wear on trees). There. I said it. I've clipped bolts before, but it's still sad to see cliffs littered with glittering metal. Yes the chalk is litter too. I mostly don't use it. And yes your project draws are litter too and even more unsightly. Spare us the argument that it's too hard to clip them onto the bolts when projecting. It takes two seconds. You aren't even wiggling in some tiny nut or weird tricam placement. I dont want your short ass quick draws, and I dont want on your sport climb. But I also dont feel bad for you if someone takes your shit. The crag isn't your house. Take your gear home with you.

Lol doesn't drink soda.  

Noah R · · Burlington, VT · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 0
Keith Wood wrote: I trad climb, but I've never thought of left gear as litter. That is a completely novel idea to me. If there's left gear, or even stuck perma-gear, it doesn't seem remotely similar to litter at the base. It's just a reality. I bring down what I can but think nothing of it if I can't.

I think of the gear as litter (More or less) if there is a fixed piece that changes the character of the climb. That shit kinda bothers me. further, there is something so beautiful about a crack with nothing in it when you got there, and nothing in it when you leave. That is one of my favorite parts of trad climbing. 

Lon Harter · · Reno · Joined May 2018 · Points: 219

When Dano setup all the lines at Cave Rock he had draws left in placed on all the Routes even the lines that he soloed.  It was never considered trash.  No one ever thought about steeling them either.   Maybe that's because you had to be a 5.12 climber to climb there?  Big difference between taking a draw aka steeling and removing stuck abandoned gear aka booty left on a trad line.   Cave Rock was a beautiful place to climb. Dano gave so much back to the climbing community.  Leave the dam draws alone or get your ass kicked if caught.   Simple and yes I would do with a smile on my face while I laughed at you. Nothing worse than a thief.  But booty on a trad line is not steeling you have to work for it.  It was abandoned. Yes it's nice to give the gear back.  It might be the right thing to do if you know who it belongs to it might be good Carma.  It 's not your job to find out who it belongs to although it might be a nice thing to do.  So my little snow flake if draws  left on a developed crag so offends you then I would suggest you stay at home and play with your playdough climbing might not be a safe place for you after all. 

RIP Dano you are missed.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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