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On rappel...and out of rope
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Helen, |
FrankPS wrote:Hobo's Idea is way better than FrankPS's, Fix the unevenness before you ever get near the end of the rope/knot lol. |
Jeffrey Constine wrote: Hobo's Idea is way better. FrankPS's Idea 1/1, Fix the unevenness before you ever get near the end of the rope lol. Isn't "1/1" a good score? Sounds like the max to me! |
FrankPS wrote:Ment 1/10 lol PS. |
Idaho Bob wrote: When new a 70m should actually be about 71-72m, but shrinks with time. Maybe as much as 5% per some manufacturers. Knowing the actual length can avoid mishaps We just got a new 70m rope, and measured it to be sure. It turns out to be about 71.5m or so. I don't think we had a huge margin of error in the measurement, maybe +/-0.2m? Also important, we ordered a bicolored rope because we got tired of measuring out the middle. Well it turns out that the two colors are not of equal length. LOL. One color is actually about 0.5m longer than the other. Go figure. We should still be okay using the "middle" as a middle when rapping, but I'm surprised they don't have this process down pat. BTW I keep hearing that ropes shrink with age. I have an Edelrid Eagle (9.8mm) which we've been using since 2012. Yes 2012 (still in good shape, but why push it?). Anyway, we measured it, and it's still 60m, maybe a little longer. I'm pretty sure I measured it when I got it, because I'm geeky like that.So what's the deal with shrinkage? Is that for real? I would expect climbing ropes to increase in length with age, due to lost elasticity. Like the elastic in a pair of shorts. |
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I like to fix the rope for the first descender when I'm not sure we're gonna reach. This makes ascending the rope a bit simpler and safer, since you can just prusik up one side, or even use a jumar/micro traxion/tibloc if you happen to have one. |
Danny Herrera wrote: howardreplogle.com/essays/c… Well that was horrifying thank you for the nightmare fuel. Man what a read, lots of mistakes but my basic takeaway is that I can't believe anyone used swami belts. |
T G wrote: Hey, my kid and I got to the top of the trail, and realized the rope was still in the truck, lol! Because I learned to use prussiks first thing to get up a rope (it was fun!), it has always annoyed me when that skill is presented as something a beginner shouldn't attempt, like it is complicated. The simplicity of that hitch on a rope, and that my old lady self could do something so amazing, is probably what hooked me on climbing, day one. People who are somewhat new, getting outside, and starting to lead, are exactly who needs to have something to use, if the unexpected happens, or they make a mistake, IMO. Not the whole rescue everyone you meet deal, just one or two simple ideas that will remind you that you do have a problem solving brain, and some simple gear to conSider for tools.Here's a pretty good vid. I learned with two prussiks top, two Purcell's for feet (tied to match my height), and can ascend and descend pretty readily with them. I really like the last bit, with the two carabiniers, plus something for progress capture (lots of ways to do that, too). As she said, practice, but if you aren't up for practicing, at least just try it out. https://youtu.be/WcUmdGIf21o As far as better, or worse, comments? Who knows what will "stick" for any one individual, when it matters. Having you peeps "expose" yourselves to me for these few years, gave me plenty to work with, and not always in the ways you may have presented the info. The back and forth is hugely valuable too, because that is where the minuses come up, the "why" of the thing, and heck, BITD, the physics equations would fly, when bearbreeder and rgold got going! I couldn't follow the math, but I sure enjoyed the "arguments"! Again, thanks, on behalf of us seminoobs! Packing up for City of Rocks shortly! Anytime I climb, I am well aware of the team effort that has helped me get to this point, and I'm very, very, grateful to all of you. Helen |
Mark A wrote: Yeah!!!! My husband was a pilot. Long before I started climbing, accident dissection was part of the thinking. We both read Flying magazine back then, and a favorite column was "what I learned about flying". This was first hand accounts of near misses.Over and over again, one small mistake, leads to another...and another. Too often, to a crash and fatalities, with the survivors sorting out that failure cascade. Sound familiar? Have fun, be safe, be awesome! Best, Helen |
dragons wrote: So what's the deal with shrinkage? Is that for real? I would expect climbing ropes to increase in length with age, due to lost elasticity. Like the elastic in a pair of shorts. Yes it's real - petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Chang… |
Danny Herrera wrote: howardreplogle.com/essays/c… Damn, that's a brutal and honest account. Read it last night, woke up still mulling it over in my brain. Some valuable lessons to absorb from that! |
http://www.howardreplogle.com/essays/climbingacident/caccident.htmWhat this story really lets folks do is see how the actual accident was a whole sequence of events starting with planning (short on gear), then starting too late, being tired, hungry, ready to get down, etc. Lots of causes, and they often start WAY before the final crucial mistake. I can remember being on long climbs, being tired and dehydrated and hungry, and looking over at my partner, and saying 'We're both REALLY dumb right now. Let's be f**cking careful.' All of the stupid mistakes that can kill you and people rant and argue on MP about how they should never happen... can happen really easily when you're tired. Just something for the new climbers to keep in the front of their minds. |
Serge Smirnov wrote: Thanks, very interesting! And strange that it hasn't happened with my old rope. In fact I'd swear it has gotten longer over time. |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: Rock climb multipitch usually with double 60m, multi pitch ice usually double 70m. almost never run out of rope... It is pretty fun to get on something long you know you can hike with a single 60 or 70 but I only do that route if I am certain about the raps. any kind of real adventure I like the doubles... I don't disagree, but at the end of a long day, when it's pretty much dark, you're unfamiliar with the rap-route, you can't see the next station and the lights you see down there are tiny... you can still get yourself into trouble. It's absolutely terrifying to rap 200' into the dark hoping to find the next anchor by headlamp (if you have one). |
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On a long route where I'll probably be rapping by headlamp, I tie a length of pink flagging tape to each rap anchor. This can only be done when the rap anchors are also the belay anchors. Really helps spot the anchor by headlamp and speeds up the rappel process. Then remove the flagging tape on the way down. |
FrankPS wrote: If it's a case of uneven ends AND the ends are knotted, just keep rappeling. When your device hits the first knot on the shorter end, the ropes will even out. Just make sure the knot is sturdy and won't untie. Of course this would be lethal if rappelling with the doubled rope directly through an anchor sling (rather than through a metal ring/krab etc) since the weighted rope running over the sling would melt through it. My apologies for stating the obvious. |
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relevant: http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13201214405/Stranded-in-Mid-Air-Off-Route-Rappel |
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This video covers it really well. Works the exact same with double strand (I imagine, never had to do thankfully). |
