AAC Climbing Report
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The idea that NO barriers exists seems probably untrue- I don't know that I feel confident enough to put forth what they might be, but I think demographically we can see some sort of difference represented. ~80% of American climbers are white, while about 60% of Americans generally are white folks. Black people are about 13% of America but only 1% of climbers! Surely that points to something going on, right? Unless we think, I dunno, black folks are less adventurous or something, which is a silly assertion. If there's a difference like that that's hard to account for, shouldn't we explore what it might be? |
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I advocate leveling out the barriers for golf (probably even more disparities) before climbing. |
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Mark Pilate wrote: I advocate leveling out the barriers for golf (probably even more disparities) before climbing.Mark may be joking but he has a point. If you care about social causes, getting minorities into climbing is probably the least significant way you can help them. Climbing offers no economic benefits. It's not going to help someone's career or family status. It's not a great business networking forum. No poor kid of any race gets a degree from a good college because of a climbing scholarship. The demographic of climbers is mostly the children of people who are already comfortable. Climbing is not a path to opportunity in life, it is a path that is more likely after other opportunities have been realized. |
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FosterK wrote: LOLZ, this is completely silly. when i learned to climb i didn't have any mentors, or teachers. many of the folks that i climb with learned in a similar manner. you just went out and did it, tried not to die, and hopefully learned from your mistakes. you're saying "knowledge is policed..." - what, do people not have access to the internet, or climbing magazines, or books, etc... your whole argument is just regurgitating some ludicrous speech that some overly sensitive soul has drummed into your head. |
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TJ Brannen wrote: The idea that NO barriers exists seems probably untrue- I don't know that I feel confident enough to put forth what they might be, but I think demographically we can see some sort of difference represented. ~80% of American climbers are white, while about 60% of Americans generally are white folks. Black people are about 13% of America but only 1% of climbers! Surely that points to something going on, right? Unless we think, I dunno, black folks are less adventurous or something, which is a silly assertion. If there's a difference like that that's hard to account for, shouldn't we explore what it might be? So the ethnicity of the population of participants in every sport should be proportional to the general population? Someone should look into the NBA. |
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slim wrote: Cute, but this what nearly every climbing and SAR organization preaches against. The need for mentors and teachers, specifically for new climbers, is something reiterated on this forum on nearly every thread in the beginner forum. So let's be realistic and deal with the culture we have - the community consensus advocates for new climbers to find mentors and teachers and that book learning is not sufficient. It's not a stretch to ask what, if any barriers, exist in accessing that for people. |
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Eric wrote: Oh my god dude, no, I made no such suggestion at all- I was explicit that I was NOT saying something like that. Just pointed out a demographic difference. I don't think I even said I think it's bad, just worth understanding... Get some reading comprehension, y'all! |
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Eric wrote: FosterK: "If only black people liked what I like, they could heal, relax and benefit from adopting my culture" *shrugged* either you read the linked articles or your didn't. |
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Increasing diversity is in the best financial interests of REI and the rest of the climbing industrial complex. |
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Eric wrote:
So what were you hinting at?Simply that there is clearly a demographic difference, and it's worth trying to figure out why that might be. If it's just people choosing or not choosing to climb, cool! If (IF!) there's something else, it can be addressed. |
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Eric Engberg wrote: Also, this is apples to oranges. As this thread keeps insisting, climbing is seemingly a low barrier sport to access- all you've gotta do is show up at the gym. The NBA requires years of training, a lot of natural talent, the right physique, luck... A better comparison would be people who climb 5.15, maybe? There's not exactly a conversation about the diversity of the very best climbers in the world, because that would be pretty silly... |
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TJ Brannen wrote: Eric wrote: Simplest explanation would be household income. Climbing really isn't all that expensive but I'd wager the barrier still exists. Having the money to spend on gear, private transportation to get to the crag, and above all else time, is still a barrier. |
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I haven't seen "white privilege" referenced yet. But it's coming. |
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TJ Brannen wrote: Eric wrote: I think most of the difference can be explained by demographic factors that are independent of race: economics, education, etc. Although you technically don't need a lot money to be climber, having financial security makes any time-consuming hobby easier and less stressful. Many of the Stonemasters were trust fund babies. Blacks are not represented in the middle and upper class as much as whites, and that's where most climbers come from. There are probably some other factors, like geography. There's aren't many mountains in the south and industrial east where most American blacks live. There's lots of climbing in the west where there are fewer blacks. But the primary factors are economic. |