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Rappel Extention

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Tiger Baishu · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 15

I am preparing my second outdoor climbing with my daughter. We are going to do some small wall rappel. Can you tell me which method is the best way to do rappel extension. I can tell the 2 and 3 have redundancy but I saw a video and it says the 1 has some advantages. Need some advice.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,931

Number 1 offers no advantage over 2 or 3. In all cases clip the "end locker" back to your belay loop; that's where the redundancy (protection against the moving rap rope burning through the sling) comes in. Use a nylon sling for even more burn resistance.

Idaho Bob · · McCall, ID · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 472

Might be a good time to introduce her to using a "third hand".

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 553

I can't imagine any advantage to #1. No 2 and #3 are fine. Can you link the video?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

You and your daughter stay safe. It would be good to go with an experienced climber or hire a guide.

Gumby King · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 25

Use a prusik knot too

Bailey K · · Laramie, WY · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 10

With method #2, if youre weighting the PAS at an anchor, the whole sling pinches the rappel biner awkwardly in two places instead of one (as is the case with method #1). This makes it harder to go off rappel, and increases the likelihood of dropping your atc if you are not careful. This is made worse by twists in your sling.

This is a bit hard to explain, but it happened to me once in the Dolomites. Of course its avoidable with some care

#3 seems to have the same redundancy while avoiding this issue 

SeƱor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10

#4. Tie into your belay device at exactly the right length for you or her using a CLOVE HITCH in the sling and then double the rest back to your belay loop with the 2nd locker. Be sure you are proficient at clove hitches before you do this. Otherwise, go with 2.

And, yes, the most important thing is to have her and you both using a 3rd hand, whether an autoblock or a prussik. 

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,094

How tall is your daughter? Make sure all of this works for her. I'm 4'11", and your rigging appears almost out of reach, for me. I also have tied my prussik as small as possible, to work on two ropes.

Second/third having a guide or someone experienced helping with this. Don't faint, Frank. ;-)

Have fun! Best, Helen

Tiger Baishu · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 15

Thank you all so much for the advice. The safety is always the 1st priority. I prefer #3 if #2 and #3 are good. I will definitely use autoblock for more protection.
We had our first outdoor climbing with a guide and we learned a lot. This is the second time outdoor climbing. We will only climb some small walls (20-30 ft).

Tiger Baishu · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 15
wivanoff wrote: I can't imagine any advantage to #1. No 2 and #3 are fine. Can you link the video?

I watched the video 2-3 weeks ago but I couldn't find it. That's why I want to ask.

Tiger Baishu · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 15
Old lady H wrote: How tall is your daughter? Make sure all of this works for her. I'm 4'11", and your rigging appears almost out of reach, for me. I also have tied my prussik as small as possible, to work on two ropes.

Second/third having a guide or someone experienced helping with this. Don't faint, Frank. ;-)

Have fun! Best, Helen

Thank you for reminding me. My daughter is 7 and 4'2". I will adjust the length and make sure it works for her.

We have been climbing in Gym for 1 year. I have lead cert. My daughter can climb some 5.10b in gym. We had our first outdoor climbing in March. This will be our second time.
Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,094

She shouldn't be rappelling. Lower her, and, go with other people. You need someone to belay you, at the least. At that age, it all needs to be very controlled, and easy. Seven isn't too young to climb, but it is far too young to be subject to the trauma of anything going wrong. Just my opinion, but it's one I don't back down from. Parents have a responsibility to consider worst case scenarios. Outside climbing? That includes the worst case of seeing daddy (or mom) splat.

I learned to climb right alongside my son. He was 20 at the time, and I still thought long and hard about giving him the "opportunity" to kill his mom, as my partner. Even if he made no mistake at all, just being there could ​be devastating.

Best, Helen

Kevin Mokracek · · Burbank · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 290

Option 4.  No extension at all.  

Tiger Baishu · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 15
Old lady H wrote: She shouldn't be rappelling. Lower her, and, go with other people. You need someone to belay you, at the least. At that age, it all needs to be very controlled, and easy. Seven isn't too young to climb, but it is far too young to be subject to the trauma of anything going wrong. Just my opinion, but it's one I don't back down from. Parents have a responsibility to consider worst case scenarios. Outside climbing? That includes the worst case of seeing daddy (or mom) splat.

I learned to climb right alongside my son. He was 20 at the time, and I still thought long and hard about giving him the "opportunity" to kill his mom, as my partner. Even if he made no mistake at all, just being there could be devastating.

Best, Helen

Thank you for all information. I won't let my daughter do any belay work at this age. I forgot to mention my wife will belay me. She is always belaying my daughter and me in gym. My daughter will only do toprope. I just want my daughter to understand the rappel and how it works. Sorry for confusing.

Tiger Baishu · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 15
Kevin Mokracek wrote: Option 4.  No extension at all.  

I don't like this option :)

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
m Mobes wrote:

No friggin shit. Second time outside and asking basic questions on the internet? Your child is worth more, this aint soccer. Ask a guide or guinea pig it yourself away from children.

Yeah, what could go wrong? Dangerous. Hope there are other climbers nearby and cell reception.

Jay Dee · · Summerville, SC · Joined May 2017 · Points: 0

IMO 7 is too young to rappel rock with such little collective experience. However,  if you're determined for your daughter to rappel then just   have your wife be on a firemen's belay. 

Kevin Mokracek · · Burbank · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 290

Why are you extending?   The only time I extend is rapping with a pig. 

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,094
Jay Dee wrote: IMO 7 is too young to rappel rock with such little collective experience. However,  if you're determined for your daughter to rappel then just   have your wife be on a firemen's belay. 

Respectfully, does a 4'10" girl weigh enough to even make a rappel work???? How many wraps on that prussik? Not the same as dad, I'm guessing.....actual question. It's hard to even lower little kids on top rope in gyms, sometimes.

Best, Helen
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

Seriously, Tiger, don't have your daughter rappel. After you've tested your anchor by rappeling (yourself) or climbing on it, just lower your daughter after she climbs.

You don't have the experience to handle unforseen problems.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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