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Cleopatra's needle alternative anchor


Original Post
Travis D · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2019 · Points: 0

I want to lead cleopatra's needle, but am a bit sketched out rapping the bolt up top. I have been up to the top before (non lead) and notice there is not a lot of features for protection. We ended up just using the ring up top and everything worked out fine, but what other ways have people gotten down from there without using the bolt and ring on top?

jon jugenheimer · · Madison, WI · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,478

1. Downclimb
2. Needles style simul rap.  Rap at the same time as your partner, on opposite sides of the summit block.  Thread the rope through the ring, but your rope doesn't weight the ring.
3. Don't do it unless you are comfortable with the two options above.  

Burton Lindquist · · Madison, WI · Joined Jan 2002 · Points: 3,445

Jon?  Don't do what?  Climb Cleo's Needle or Simul-Rap off?

Sean Peter · · IL · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 80

- variation on #2- have your partner down climb it on a top belay and NOT UNTIE WHEN AT THE GROUND. they just stand there and be your ballast for your rap   (Thread rope thru ring and rap on opposite side of tower from them).

But the down climb is just as easy as the up climb. Have partner reclip the pieces on their way down. The you clean it on way down.  Plus you’ll feel like you are getting more climbing in. 

Sawyer W · · Van · Joined May 2018 · Points: 0
Sean Peter wrote: - variation on #2- have your partner down climb it on a top belay and NOT UNTIE WHEN AT THE GROUND. they just stand there and be your ballast for your rap   (Thread rope thru ring and rap on opposite side of tower from them).

But the down climb is just as easy as the up climb. Have partner reclip the pieces on their way down. The you clean it on way down.  Plus you’ll feel like you are getting more climbing in. 

Don’t do this.


This doubles the weight you put on the rap ring that you are already sketched out (for no reason) about.This also opens the opportunity up for a (TR) fall, which is more weight on the scary anchor than rappingThis also wears the ring way more than rapping.
Mike G · · Pennsyltucky · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 0
Sawyer W wrote:

Don’t do this.


This doubles the weight you put on the rap ring that you are already sketched out (for no reason) about 

Does it though?

"rap on opposite side of tower from them"

Buck Rio · · MN · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 11

Isn't it rated 5.3 or 5.4? It is probably the only route in DL I would solo...just down climb it.

Sawyer W · · Van · Joined May 2018 · Points: 0
Mike G wrote:

Does it though?

"rap on opposite side of tower from them"

You have a point, but then how do you clean the peices on the way down? Ye olde reach around?

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 210
Sawyer W wrote:

Don’t do this.


This doubles the weight you put on the rap ring that you are already sketched out (for no reason) about.This also opens the opportunity up for a (TR) fall, which is more weight on the scary anchor than rappingThis also wears the ring way more than rapping.

No - first person down is belayed off harness.  No forces applied to anchor.  Second raps opposite side with ring only used to keep rope from sliding off the pillar.  First person would obviously need to walk around so that the person rapping is on the side with the gear...

jon jugenheimer · · Madison, WI · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,478
Sawyer W wrote:

You have a point, but then how do you clean the peices on the way down? Ye olde reach around?

Your second would clean on the way up.

jon jugenheimer · · Madison, WI · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,478
Burton Lindquist wrote: Jon?  Don't do what?  Climb Cleo's Needle or Simul-Rap off?

Don't climb Cleo's. 

Travis D · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2019 · Points: 0

Thanks for the help everyone, could you sling or wrap the tower to backup the ring at the top? I get this may not help with rappelling, but could at least make top belaying easier. Maybe I'm thinking about it too much, but I actively try to avoid relying on one piece. 

Sean Peter · · IL · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 80
Travis D wrote: Thanks for the help everyone, could you sling or wrap the tower to backup the ring at the top? I get this may not help with rappelling, but could at least make top belaying easier. Maybe I'm thinking about it too much, but I actively try to avoid relying on one piece. 

Yes- you could either wrap the tower with a cordalette easily if you wanted- or use the rope.

Andrew Krajnik · · Plainfield, IL · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 1,698
Travis D wrote: Thanks for the help everyone, could you sling or wrap the tower to backup the ring at the top? I get this may not help with rappelling, but could at least make top belaying easier. Maybe I'm thinking about it too much, but I actively try to avoid relying on one piece. 

I build a 3-piece anchor:

1. The bolt

2. There's an old pin next to the bolt. Cinch the wire of a small nut around that pin.

3. A piece of webbing slung around the summit block. You can wrap one side of the summit block by hooking your webbing into the notch on top, and around the bottom of that same side.

I then use a double-length sling to gather those into a masterpoint.

When lowering the last climber, they stay tied in. I break down the anchor, and thread the rope through ring, set it in the notch on the front of the block, and single-strand-rap off the back side, using the tied-in climber as a counterweight.

I know some people just back up the bolt with the pin, but I like the peace of mind of having a third "placement" that's not older than I am, and it doesn't take long.

Edit: Here's a pic of the rope through the ring and the notch, just before I rappelled. You can see the pin at the lower left.
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 210

If you’re belaying off your harness at a good stance (sitting down on top of the pillar), it’s not as big of a deal to have so many pieces in; you’re basically protecting the very low likelihood chance that you slipped off or were pulled off by a sudden follower fall.  Otherwise, the anchor really doesn’t receive much of any load.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Midwest
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