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Outer Space whipper in Eldo yesterday


Original Post
Nathaniel Dray · · Boulder, CO · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 26

To whoever took the 40' whipper on the upper headwall of Outer Space yesterday at 5:30pm... that was gnarly and I'm glad you were able to climb back to the 2nd pitch belay. Totally thought you were going to the ground. It looked like you took a swing into the wall above the dihedral and hit your back.. I didn't see a helmet but hope you didn't hit your head. Needless to say the two women visiting from the UK who I was showing around were speechless. Glad no rescue was needed. Safe climbing everyone.

Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 255
Nathaniel Dray wrote: To whoever took the 40' whipper on the upper headwall of Outer Space yesterday at 5:30pm... that was gnarly and I'm glad you were able to climb back to the 2nd pitch belay. Totally thought you were going to the ground. It looked like you took a swing into the wall above the dihedral and hit your back.. I didn't see a helmet but hope you didn't hit your head. Needless to say the two women visiting from the UK who I was showing around were speechless. Glad no rescue was needed. Safe climbing everyone.

Dudes always tryin’ to impress the out-of-town ladies. Hope he got their numbers for his effort.

Carlos Danger · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 0

40 footers on outer space aren’t cool. 

Nobleman · · Denver, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 45

I also saw that fall - gnarly! I am curious as to the series of events that led to that long of a fall. Hope everyone is ok.

Peter Jacobs · · Boulder, CO · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 35

I don’t think this was me, but it’s funny because I took a 50 footer on the climb to the right of that, northwest corner, last Thursday. Pro tip on that climb: I stuck a .3 sized trango in the crux. It was stuffed in pretty good. I think it’s the same size as a yellow alien. Anyways I was cruxing and I shoved it in overcammed. When I fell it ripped right out. I fell all the way down to the second belay pillar. I think it failed because it was overcammed. I can’t prove it though. Here is a pic. The cam failed  the nut held the fall. I’m starting to really love nuts. It didn’t even get scratched. Came out just fine afterward. I can proudly say that I pulled the rope after the fall and sent the pitch. :-)

Terry Parker · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined May 2006 · Points: 0

Last post I made, I was referred to as an "old crusty". I was proud....
I love passive prove. Place a great wire or great hex and I'm good for another 10+ feet.
Watched a guy about 4 or 5 years ago at Lumpy trying to do a project. Was doing consistent +20 foot whippers. 
Watching someone trying to do a project is like watching golf.
Saw him in the parking lot and he informed he was falling on a BD #3 wire. Same wire every time. 

caughtinside · · Oakland CA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,450
Peter Jacobs wrote: I don’t think this was me, but it’s funny because I took a 50 footer on the climb to the right of that, northwest corner, last Thursday. Pro tip on that climb: I stuck a .3 sized trango in the crux. It was stuffed in pretty good. I think it’s the same size as a yellow alien. Anyways I was cruxing and I shoved it in overcammed. When I fell it ripped right out. I fell all the way down to the second belay pillar. I think it failed because it was overcammed. I can’t prove it though. Here is a pic. The cam failed  the nut held the fall. I’m starting to really love nuts. It didn’t even get scratched. Came out just fine afterward. I can proudly say that I pulled the rope after the fall and sent the pitch. :-)

Ah, I see what happened here.


You're wearing crack gloves.  
Thomas Gilmore · · Golden, CO · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 95

Where's the weekend whipper vids of these? Please post ASAP! Pretty sure I was watching the team get started but left before the whip. Wish I would have stuck around!

Guy H. · · Fort Collins CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 7,928

Not sure how you take a 40 on that pitch...

Greg Miller · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,225
Peter Jacobs wrote: I don’t think this was me, but it’s funny because I took a 50 footer on the climb to the right of that, northwest corner, last Thursday. Pro tip on that climb: I stuck a .3 sized trango in the crux. It was stuffed in pretty good. I think it’s the same size as a yellow alien. Anyways I was cruxing and I shoved it in overcammed. When I fell it ripped right out. I fell all the way down to the second belay pillar. I think it failed because it was overcammed. I can’t prove it though. Here is a pic. The cam failed  the nut held the fall. I’m starting to really love nuts. It didn’t even get scratched. Came out just fine afterward. I can proudly say that I pulled the rope after the fall and sent the pitch. :-)

it failed cuz its a trango cam lol

Sean C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0
Peter Jacobs wrote: I don’t think this was me, but it’s funny because I took a 50 footer on the climb to the right of that, northwest corner, last Thursday. Pro tip on that climb: I stuck a .3 sized trango in the crux. It was stuffed in pretty good. I think it’s the same size as a yellow alien. Anyways I was cruxing and I shoved it in overcammed. When I fell it ripped right out. I fell all the way down to the second belay pillar. I think it failed because it was overcammed. I can’t prove it though. Here is a pic. The cam failed  the nut held the fall. I’m starting to really love nuts. It didn’t even get scratched. Came out just fine afterward. I can proudly say that I pulled the rope after the fall and sent the pitch. :-)

Just a new trad leader asking for clarification:


My understanding was that an over cammed SLCD would hold (given that the rock is good) better or at least as well as a perfect placement; it'd just be more likely to get stuck. Can someone expand on this and tell me why overcamming can cause the device to pop out? Again, not trying to argue, just trying to understand better. Thanks.

On a side note: we were topping out Ruper at the same time as the fall. I wonder if that was the scream I heard. We we're pretty far away though so probably not. Hope everyone is OK.
Jonathan Awerbuch · · Boulder, Colorado · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 41
Sean C wrote:

Just a new trad leader asking for clarification:


My understanding was that an over cammed SLCD would hold (given that the rock is good) better or at least as well as a perfect placement; it'd just be more likely to get stuck. Can someone expand on this and tell me why overcamming can cause the device to pop out? Again, not trying to argue, just trying to understand better. Thanks.

On a side note: we were topping out Ruper at the same time as the fall. I wonder if that was the scream I heard. We we're pretty far away though so probably not. Hope everyone is OK.

Your understanding seems right. Trango cams are just sketch. There are lots of criteria for a good placement. Over/under cammed-ness is just one.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
Jonathan Awerbuch wrote:

Your understanding seems right. Trango cams are just sketch. There are lots of criteria for a good placement. Over/under cammed-ness is just one.

Ummmm....no. Sorry, but an over cammed cam IS more likely to pull. I'm no engineer but the angle at which the lobe is contacting the rock doesn't allow for the proper force to engage properly. Thus, they can slide out. There's a sweet area on every cam where that force is optimal.

I'm sure someone else will now draw a picture and dive deep into the minutiae.
JNE · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,035
Tradiban wrote:

Ummmm....no. Sorry, but an over cammed cam IS more likely to pull. I'm no engineer but the angle at which the lobe is contacting the rock doesn't allow for the proper force to engage properly. Thus, they can slide out. There's a sweet area on every cam where that force is optimal.

I'm sure someone else will now draw a picture and dive deep into the minutiae.

This is incorrect, and to help you out, I bolded all the blatantly wrong parts ;)

Sean C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0
Tradiban wrote:

Ummmm....no. Sorry, but an over cammed cam IS more likely to pull. I'm no engineer but the angle at which the lobe is contacting the rock doesn't allow for the proper force to engage properly. Thus, they can slide out. There's a sweet area on every cam where that force is optimal.

I'm sure someone else will now draw a picture and dive deep into the minutiae.

I can see this maybe making sense. As in, an overcammed device is providing enough force (as well as limited ROM) to prevent removal by hand, but not necessarily enough force to stop the fall. But I'm not an engineer either

Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,196
JNE wrote:

This is incorrect, and to help you out, I bolded all the blatantly wrong parts ;)

That was a bold move.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,107
Sean C wrote:

I can see this maybe making sense. As in, an overcammed device is providing enough force (as well as limited ROM) to prevent removal by hand, but not necessarily enough force to stop the fall. But I'm not an engineer either

no, you can't see this making sense.  because it doesn't...

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,107
Guy H. wrote: Not sure how you take a 40 on that pitch...

this is what i would like to know.  good gear on the entire route, unless you choose not to place it.

Travis S · · Texas · Joined Jul 2018 · Points: 10
Sean C wrote:

I can see this maybe making sense. As in, an overcammed device is providing enough force (as well as limited ROM) to prevent removal by hand, but not necessarily enough force to stop the fall. But I'm not an engineer either

I am an engineer and without actually doing the math on paper I believe the more cammed it is, the more likely it is to hold with all of the constant angle cams. With a totem where the lobes cause a non constant angle, this isn’t true but if you look at a typical C4 no matter how cammed it is the lobe has the same curvature which equates to same force because the angle will be the same. So then it boils down to the spring force that helps prevent it from pulling or walking and the more it is cammed the larger the spring force. Feel free to correct me with actual math though. 

Sean C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0
Travis S wrote:

I am an engineer and without actually doing the math on paper I believe the more cammed it is, the more likely it is to hold with all of the constant angle cams. With a totem where the lobes cause a non constant angle, this isn’t true but if you look at a typical C4 no matter how cammed it is the lobe has the same curvature which equates to same force because the angle will be the same. So then it boils down to the spring force that helps prevent it from pulling or walking and the more it is cammed the larger the spring force. Feel free to correct me with actual math though. 

No need to; couldn't do it if I tried. What you're saying was more of my understanding, but I was open to being wrong because maybe it wasn't as simple as I thought.

Jfriday1 · · Golden, CO · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 40

I wanna hear about the forty-Pointer I Mean 40-footer!!!  Its a climb that I want to get on sometime.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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