New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #7

We had a wonderful day at Donner, and I really needed it!  I forget how much sun and rock and friendship brings me back to life.  Was going to practice lead today but it turned out to be a crack day.   I’m feeling more relaxed with heights and altitude (7500 ft). 

Señor Arroz wrote:

Falling with the rope behind your ankle isn't a "Can never happen." It's just a thing you should avoid. 

What Senor said,  whomever is nit picking you about rope over the ankle cannot ever say they have not done the same thing. If they make that claim then they are either lying or ignorant. If you climb anything other than TR it's going to happen, it's not that it happens, it's that you recognize it as a potential problem and do something about it.  

Meanwhile back at the farm... most days it’s fun to
watch truly great climbers moving up expert routes. Yesterday all I could feel was astonishment.  No sense of “I’ll have to work on this at the gym.”   Just “Oh shit! This can be done?”  (5.13 crack to left, 5.12 to right... my crack/arete was a 5.8)  I still laugh when I remember Bob Gaines yelling at me on an arete in Josh “Lori, it’s not a horse! Stand up!”

Just a personal wistful thought this morning: does anyone here have a sense of place in their climbing life? I don’t know how better to word this but I’m still trying to sort it out for myself. 
My heart always returns to Joshua Tree and I don’t know why.  I love the mountains, ocean, plains... and these mountains here are growing on me. I would miss them if I were away too long. But whenever I return to Joshua Tree my heart just settles.  
It makes me wonder if I love climbing or I love a place where people happen to climb.   
——
My good friend Chris has for many years spent 7 months in Josh and the other 5 in Truckee.  We had ice cream after climbing yesterday and I got to meet his wife of many years. She stays behind when he drives south. It’s hard on their relationship. It’s hard maintaining two homes. But it’s the best they can muster. I’ve been thinking of something like this. 

Lori

Jean and I both had a great time in Jtree back in February. We had not climb there in about 15 years. Jean told me that she could live in that area. It may have been that we have 2 friends, Soo and Linda, that both live out there, the rock quality, the climbing with friends, the weather, etc,. We also both love multi-pitch climbing. I like the feeling of being up high since I am afraid of heights. Since I am tied into a rope and placing gear, I can control the fear of heights most of the time.

We like to visit different area. Learn to climb on different quality of rocks, cracks, face, off-widths and slabs. I like trad more than sport and Jean likes sport climbing better. Going to different area, you become a better all round climber. You also learn different techniques of climbing. You also meet some very nice people. We meet Dallas and Barb at Red Rocks, meet you at Jtree. Once the doctor tells Jean that her retina is fully attached and we can travel, we will head out west. We hope to meet up with Helen at City and Castle Rocks for a couple of days. We will spend at least a month at Jtree and couple of days at Alabama Hills again. We also hope to climb with you at Jtree. Our good friend Ed will join us for a couple of days at both Jtree and Alabama Hills.

We also have a good friend out in Moab and hope to spend a couple of days with him. I hope to get up to NH in August to climb some easy multi-pitch slabs and meet up with Dragons. At age 66 both of us are slowing down. We can not climb like we used to do, however, we always have a good time just climbing, being outside and meeting people.

If Jean really like the Jtree area, maybe we will try to find a small place and move there.

You take care

John

My first time in Maple Canyon yesterday - what a fun place! That is some interesting rock, and I love the super short & easy approaches. Did my first lead climb too, and my first lead belays. Feel like I'm making some progress!

Packing today, leaving tomorrow for a quick trip to COR. A bit of climbing, I expect, but this one is primarily a belaying ​​​​trip, lol! The friend who took me ice climbing a couple years ago is teaching climbing to a homeschooler group, teens and tweens (maybe?) plus non climbing adults riding herd. Should truly be fun! I love seeing faces light up, at the discovery that "yes! I can DO this!!!"  A special moment that doesn't happen often....unless you are a climber who chooses to do this. :-)

Alrighty, peeps....negotiations are underway! As oldtrad said, hoping for a meeting at City, when they are up for it, but all? Jtree could be doable too, later on. I would really love to meet some of you at your "home" crags, as well as host you at mine! November, maybe???

Talking with Erica about maybe meeting  between Boise and CO. Somewhere. In CO, I am really, really, hoping to meet Steve Price. He has to set that date, though. I can't airlift out to whatever ocean he is on, lol!

I'm expecting to go sweat it out at City once more, between now and sweating mid August, if anyone thinks they'll be up this way and wants to meet up for either trip.

Lori, I think it can be both. Those places that sing to your heart, and the people associated with those places, or, those times when the people are the draw to a place. Any place, if that person is there. I told Steve I would fly anywhere I don't need a passport to get to, just to meet him, even for a short time. 

Off to go get the gear sorted, and maybe round up some clothes. This trip, is about the people!

Have a great rest of the weekend. Sheesh. Had to glance at the atomic clock to confirm it is indeed halfway through a weekend! My apologies to you kids who are still working. Well, not really, but gotta be nice once in a while, eh?

Love to the lot of ya, Helen

The landscape in J-tree IS pretty magical, Lori. Plus a cool boho undercurrent in the town. I can see how that appeals to the old hippie in you. 

Señor Arroz wrote: The landscape in J-tree IS pretty magical, Lori. Plus a cool boho undercurrent in the town. I can see how that appeals to the old hippie in you. 

Thank you, Senor. I'm becoming aware that I am seeking more than just new rock.  Something lost, or at least long tucked away, has been re-emerging.   

Does anyone experience debilitating muscle cramps?  I had to cancel my weekend Wilderness Medicine course because of muscle spasms that started shortly after I went to bed Friday after climbing, and continued on all morning.  They were so painful and jolting I considered calling an ambulance... and the pain just didn't let up.  This isn't the first time this has happened, but now I'm scared.  So, several people recommended Hot Shots from Amazon... and I am going to order some.  (Of all places, WHY the adductors?)


https://www.amazon.com/HOTSHOT-Muscle-Sports-Organic-Bottles/dp/B01DE71K4U/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1VXUIHG61OWA3&keywords=hot+shot+muscle+cramp+relief&qid=1563127170&s=gateway&sprefix=hot+shots+muscl%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-3

...then this may be your salvation product. It has been for me.

I read the Wall Street Journal article regarding the psychological nature of cramps and I am at a place where I cramp so badly, and so often, after running or biking that I had nothing to lose by trying the "placebo". I do not want to give up distance sports but I had got to a place where the cramp pain out paced the strenuous exercise. If I were going for a 30 mile bike ride, I would stretch for a10-15 minutes before the ride and 20-30 minutes after. I hydrated all through the ride and usually finished with some electrolytes or cocoanut water. Most times I would get ion the hot tub for 20 minutes and then go to bed. Two or three hours later I would get the most jolting, ridiculously painful cramps in my adductors or calves; either leg. The pain was so intense that on more than one occasion I had to beg my wife not to call an ambulance. Maybe you know how I feel, most people who cramp just walk it off, and have no idea what I am talking about.

I read everything I could and heard so many old-fashioned remedies; pickle brine, salt tablets, quinine, over-hydration, McDonald's chocolate milk shakes, etc., that I realized, "If everything works, then obviously, none of these work." It made no sense to me. Why is it when I was when I was warm and full hydrated and stretched and in my warm bed....the cramps would attack?

I have been using Hot Shots for about 9 months and I am a true believer. I started using them on my 100 mile rides, and drank one (they taste like ginger beer with a hint of Tabasco) for the occasional cramp which seems to occur around 75 miles. They work, but it takes a while for the cramp to go away so it is not the optimal moment to use one. However, for the 2:00 AM cramps they are phenomenal. On two different occasions my leg cramp has vanished within seconds (this while I am flopping and writing on my bed like a trout.) It is almost too good to be true. Other times, they may take 30 seconds, but never more than a minute.

The interesting thing, which I cannot measure, is I am now taking them prophylactically before I go to sleep after a long run or ride, and when I do that, I do not cramp. It cannot be coincidence that my cramps have stopped, and were I a true researcher I should try passing on the Hot Shot, just one time after a tough workout, but the fact is, my cramps are so painful and long lasting that I do not want to take any chances. I have had cramps where my leg muscles are black and blue from my wife digging her fingers in as hard as she could (that works but I limp for 72 hours.)

If you can relate to my cramping...you will love this product

Harumpfster Boondoggle - "Just another Sierra slab" - nice! Dang I gotta get out there some day.

Carl - That looks like a nice route! Wear a helmet, it will help keep your brain in place if you ever fall with the rope behind your leg. youtu.be/eQYf_b7tQfM?t=313

Lori - "does anyone here have a sense of place in their climbing life?" Nope not really. Whenever I'm climbing, I think "jeez this is the best place ever to climb, we should just move here". I still think my best bet is a dirtbag traveling climber life. BTW did someone hack your account? Your last post about muscle cramps (where you talk about your wife lol) is mighty spammish looking.

Oldtradguy/John - looking forward to meeting you! Just ping me and we'll figure out what to do.

OLH - hope you get out to NH some time, but if I get the chance I would love to join you at City of Rocks some day! It looks massively entertaining!

dragons wrote: 
Lori - "does anyone here have a sense of place in their climbing life?" Nope not really. Whenever I'm climbing, I think "jeez this is the best place ever to climb, we should just move here". I still think my best bet is a dirtbag traveling climber life. BTW did someone hack your account? Your last post about muscle cramps (where you talk about your wife lol) is mighty spammish looking.

Hey dragons,  No... I just posted the entire Amazon review from one person (who sounded like he had the same problem as me).  There were 150+ reviews for this problem. 

Lori, have you talked to a doc about your muscle cramps? That sounds really bad. I sometimes get minor foot/toe cramps or calf cramps, but I've never had a spasm that wouldn't stop if I just stretched and focused on the problem area. I may have a mineral imbalance, but it's not worth going to a doctor about.

Lori, just out of curiosity, do you have any issues with your lower back?
I have a couple burst discs in my lower back and I think my leg and feet cramps may be to my lower back.

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwain wrote: Lori, just out of curiosity, do you have any issues with your lower back?
I have a couple burst discs in my lower back and I think my leg and feet cramps may be to my lower back.

I had surgery on my L5 S1 several years ago, the discs had burst and damaged the sciatic nerve.  One of the lingering issues is chronic low back pain and no sensation from the knee down in my left leg.  I do get cramps in my left foot and left quadricep especially when back stepping.  I have had to switch to a stiffer shoe to help with the foot cramping and it’s helped a bit.  I have also started using Pickle Juice type shot drinks and that has helped a bunch with leg cramps.  Unfortunately the low back pain is always there and no relief except with pain meds.  Sucks getting old. 

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

I had surgery on my L5 S1 several years ago, the discs had burst and damaged the sciatic nerve.  One of the lingering issues is chronic low back pain and no sensation from the knee down in my left leg.  I do get cramps in my left foot and left quadricep especially when back stepping.  I have had to switch to a stiffer shoe to help with the foot cramping and it’s helped a bit.  I have also started using Pickle Juice type shot drinks and that has helped a bunch with leg cramps.  Unfortunately the low back pain is always there and no relief except with pain meds.  Sucks getting old. 

Kevin my friend also had L5 S1 surgery with the same numbness. It’s left him walking with a cane and very frustrated. Did you do any physical therapy after your surgery?  

Lori Milas wrote:

Kevin my friend also had L5 S1 surgery with the same numbness. It’s left him walking with a cane and very frustrated. Did you do any physical therapy after your surgery?  

For a short time I did with no improvement.  They said the numbness would go away within months of the surgery but it’s been 14 years now and it’s still there.  Staying active and climbing has been the best thing for it.  Keeps my mind off the pain. 

Lori

About 10-12 years ago, I had neurosurgery on my L5. Previously, I had different sets of epidural injections in my spine. I had tremendous pain running along my sciatic nerve. The pain was from my back along side of my left leg to my foot. I also would get cramps in my leg and calf. Before the neurosurgery, I would take a Percocet and then 2 hours later take a Vicodin. I would repeat this the entire day to function. I would also try to find that one fetal position to lay on the floor to find a sweet spot that the pain was not too bad.

Jean's co-worker had a similar problem and went to a neurosurgeon to have her L5 operated on. I brought my MRIs to the doctor and he immediately set up on operation for me. He told me that L3, 4 and 5 were all bad. L5 was the one that was causing me the pain. He cut out 2.1 cm out of me. I said you mean 2.1 mm not cm and he said cm. This is about 3/4 inches. He said that I had a herniated that was pushed out and was so old that it was calcified and was never going back into the disk. He also said that he did hit a couple of nerves during the operation.

Long story short, 3 hours after the operation I was able to stand completely upright with no pain. After 2 days, no more pain medication. Since he did hit some nerves, I can not lift my left leg as high as my right leg and also occasionally my left leg will not lift up and I stumble when walking. I should have had the operation a long time before. I have never regretted getting the operation.

You may not have the same problem. If you do have a herniated disk and this is causing your problem, go to a neurosurgeon. It was a small incision and completely healed in a couple of months.

John