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J Tree Pure Negligence Accident May 5


Original Post
Tina Brazil · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 5

We walked up to the crag and a group was blasting music and smoking. My partner and I asked them to turn the music down so we could hear each other since, you know, climbing is fun but should be taken seriously. We finished a climb at Hemingway. She rappelled down with our 70 m rope barely touching the ground. A guy belaying his buddy (both without helmets) asked her if her rope was a 70 m. She said yes and asked him if he had a 70 m. He said “I think it’s a 60 but I’ll lower him to that ledge where he can down climb.” I rapped down, we walked away and a few minutes later heard a scream. I looked over and a second later saw this guy’s head, without a helmet, hit the ground. We assisted in trauma care and he ended up walking out but his face and head looked like, well, he fell about 30 feet onto a rock. I hope he made it and did not suffer any internal brain bleeding. Please people-wear a helmet, know how god damn long your rope is and how that compares to the length of a route, and tie knots. I would love to never have to see a human body slamming into a granite boulder again when it can be so easily avoided.

Bill Lawry · · New Mexico · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,637

Do you mean that the belayer tried to lower to that ledge to down climb.  But their 60m rope was too short and so he lowered the climber off the end of the rope?

Which route?

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
This post violated Guideline #1 and has been removed.
Benjamin Chapman · · Small Town, USA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 13,655

Tradiban...you're an insensitive, weak minded git.
Tina...Thanks for your post and insight.

lucander · · Stone Ridge, NY · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 257
Tradiban wrote:

Total bummer these guys inconvenienced you and assaulted your sensibilities.

Dude.  You suck.   

Russ Walling · · Overlord @ FishProducts · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 3,426

Fricken smokers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Everyone knows it lowers life expectancy!!!!!!!!

Jeffrey Constine · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 638

Tradiwahtevr 0/10

Reformed Troll · · Western US · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 0

I've got a pic of me from the time I rapped off the end of a rope with Lynn Hill and Alex Honold.

Bill Lawry · · New Mexico · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,637
Bill Lawry wrote: Do you mean that the belayer tried to lower to that ledge to down climb.  But their 60m rope was too short and so he lowered the climber off the end of the rope?

Which route?

Ok ....  ok. I withdraw the questions.  

Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 1,791

You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 

Forrset Pials · · New York, NYC · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0
Tristan Burnham wrote: You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 

Agreed. Also @Tradiban don't be a piece of shit

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
Tristan Burnham wrote: You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 

Kinda long-winded but Tristin said it better than me.  

I said the same thing, except with more flair. Die haters!
Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60
Tristan Burnham wrote: You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 

You can offer advice but, seriously, how many times do people actually accept it?  Take the OP's post in the spirit in which it was intended.

Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 1,791
Fat Dad wrote:

You can offer advice but, seriously, how many times do people actually accept it?  Take the OP's post in the spirit in which it was intended.

I got a ton of advice doing stupid shit when I first started. I owe a lot to the old locals at Stoney Point who threw out some tips and let people know when they were doing stupid stuff. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a mentor or have tons of training from a guide. Everyone on MP is quick to throw out advice, just do it in person too. Even if it’s just bad style like TRing through the rings instead of your own draws, it’s safe but try and educate people in the moment if you can. If they don’t take the advice then that’s on them, but it’s worth a shot. 

Josh C · · Somewhere out West · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,120

Sounds like the OP's belayer told the climbers what they needed to know: your rope is too short to reach the ground. They seemed to only heed the advice half-way (no pun intended, really) and got hurt. Yeah, maybe the OP could've been more sensitive in the post, but it's not really her responsibility to take care of the less responsible. Yeah, it's great when the more experienced and knowledgeable can hold the less so's hands and sing kumbaya with them, but that's not realistic. Hindsight is 20/20. They got hurt for not being responsible. That's karma. What I want to know is what did they do to upset the balance of the universe to get hurt? I, mean, Mars is no longer in redux, so what's up?

Sloppy Second · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0
Tristan Burnham wrote: You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 
She is high and mighty relative to these idiots.

It's not her responsibility to suggest every possible safety improvement to complete strangers.

And do you really think they would have listened to her advice?
Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 1,791
Sloppy Second wrote: She is high and mighty relative to these idiots.

It's not her responsibility to suggest every possible safety improvement to complete strangers.

And do you really think they would have listened to her advice?

Obviously not every accident can be prevented, but it doesn’t hurt to throw out advice. And yeah they are complete strangers, and I don’t want to sound like a hippy, but we’re all climbers and you could have been sharing a beer at a campfire with them the night before. 

And yeah they might have listened, they turned down their music for them right?
Josh C · · Somewhere out West · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,120
Tristan Burnham wrote:

Obviously not every accident can be prevented, but it doesn’t hurt to throw out advice. And yeah they are complete strangers, and I don’t want to sound like a hippy, but we’re all climbers and you could have been sharing a beer at a campfire with them the night before. 

And yeah they might have listened, they turned down their music for them right?

But her belayer did give them advice in an indirect way. She basically implied "Yo, you need a 70 to safely get down this climb." If they cared they should have asked to use their rope. Maybe something like "Yo yo yo, let us use your 70 to get down this climb safely and we'll share some dank 40's back at camp." "Um. Yeah, sure." "Li-i-i-t." 

Does everyone have to police everyone else these days?
Max Jones · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 0

Saw a similar thing about to happen the other day. I walked over and tied a knot in the rope for the belayer. I didn't suggest or ask. He thanked me and was surprised when the knot hit his hand at the end of the lower. His partner was pretty happy about that knot as well. 

Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 1,791

We need more Max’s and less Josh’s in the climbing world. 

Josh C · · Somewhere out West · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,120

Your words hurt. I see I've crashed up like glass against your hard malice.

Besides, I reiterate my point that she did give them advice and they didn't really take it. You can't blame other people for someone else's mistakes. Otherwise you may as well live in a nanny state.

Not everyone is as bold as Max Jones to tie a knot in someone's rope they don't know. I know I'm not. The difference between you and me Tristan is that I can admit that.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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