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"Call Out" threads


Original Post
Chris Blatchley · · Somerville, MA · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 7

Is it ok to call out people by name and try them in the court of public opinion? There have been several threads recently using this strategy which have lasted for several days at least. And what would be local only disputes have people weighing in that will never interact with the person in question.

I think we, or the site mod(s), need to clarify what is acceptable practice. Action was taken on one thread, but maybe too little too late. Threads lasting even a few hours get a lot of eyes on them. Mountain project shouldn't be the place to air dirty laundry.

My suggestion is adding a doxxing clause to the rules, and enable some way to enforce and follow up on them rapidly. Even if it's something as simple as adding a reason option to the flag button for this. Should this be a ban-able offence?

Reformed Troll · · Western US · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 1

I don't think you understand what doxxing is

mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0

I’m calling out Chris Blatchley for being a damn snowflake.

Just kidding Chris 

master gumby · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 197

According to the education I received (yes i know hard to believe) in economics, public shame is a great deterrent.

Nick Votto · · CO, CT, IT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 320

No problem with people doing dumb shit being called out.....and it's the internet, tough to regulate 

Sean Post · · Laguna Beach, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 24
Chris Blatchley wrote: Is it ok to call out people by name and try them in the court of public opinion?

Short answer is yes. Longer answer is that the history of climbing is the history of a debate over climbing ethics (as I'm sure you know), and precluding members of the climbing community from taking to the court of public opinion in order to have a conversation about what are acceptable practices, both for specific areas and overall, would be a mistake. I think this is especially true as SuperTopo has died out; MP is going to be the venue for this kind of debate, like it or not.

That being said, there is a difference between calling out the Erik Sloans and Louie Andersons of the world for bad ethical practices and doxxing people for, say, putting a hammock up in an inconsiderate place at the crag. I think the mods can discern between those things.
Tim Lutz · · Colo-Rado Springs · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 5

so proud that MP, owned by REI, has become a public whipping post for 'ethics'

Sloppy Second · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0

Really Chris?

brian burke · · santa monica, ca · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 130

doxxing is a different thing...

amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20

Step 1 - complain that people are not using their real names as mproj user handles
Step 2 - complain when people are using real names in mproj flame threads.

Say, how do you feel about real name of the prolific Smith Rock gear liberator being revealed and used?

Paul Morrison · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 0
master gumby wrote: According to the education I received (yes i know hard to believe) in economics, public shame is a great deterrent.

Did that education also include any statistics substantiating the effect on national GDP of all the time we spend being entertained by it?

Roots · · Redmond. OR · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 20

We should refer to them by their chosen screen name.

Doxxing is a different thing...kind of related but different.

SeƱor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10

Doxxing is revealing PRIVATE information about someone. That would mean, for example, a home address or a private phone# or a SS#.

I think what you're really asking about is what is the appropriate level of shaming to allow on MP. I'd propose that if it involves someone on MP who has visibility on the call-out and is able to respond, well, let it rip. And, in saying that, I mean if it involves something that either happened in MP (like ripping someone off using the for sale forums) or involves subject matter central to the purpose of Mountain Project (ie. debates over development ethics, etc.)

I'm not sure the turd in Boulder Canyon really needed to derive to the point of naming two people whose receipt was found near the poop. But it was funny. 

Chris Blatchley · · Somerville, MA · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 7

Yeah couldn't think of a better word than doxxing. My b

The point is hanging people to dry, usually without an opportunity for rebuttal, as some aren't on MP. It happens on Twitter and is majorly fucked up.

But I'm typically one for more heavy-handed moderation. I recognize it can be really bad, heavy handed mods. I just think clear rules would be good since some of the data was deleted from Boulder canyon shit thread, but not the bad bolts guy Jim one?

Chris Blatchley · · Somerville, MA · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 7
Señor Arroz wrote: Doxxing is revealing PRIVATE information about someone. That would mean, for example, a home address or a private phone# or a SS#.

I think what you're really asking about is what is the appropriate level of shaming to allow on MP. I'd propose that if it involves someone on MP who has visibility on the call-out and is able to respond, well, let it rip. And, in saying that, I mean if it involves something that either happened in MP (like ripping someone off using the for sale forums) or involves subject matter central to the purpose of Mountain Project (ie. debates over development ethics, etc.)

I'm not sure the turd in Boulder Canyon really needed to derive to the point of naming two people whose receipt was found near the poop. But it was funny. 

thanks yeah I pretty much agree with that

The Raven · · SoCo · Joined Mar 2019 · Points: 0

Jim can respond. I hope he does.

Better chance of free elections in North Korea next year than getting more than a Fuck Off response from Jim.

Reminds me of an old journalism saying...
 "If you don't want it printed don't let it happen."

The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air · · Portland, OR · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 70
Chris Blatchley wrote: Yeah couldn't think of a better word than doxxing. My b

The point is hanging people to dry, usually without an opportunity for rebuttal, as some aren't on MP. It happens on Twitter and is majorly fucked up.

But I'm typically one for more heavy-handed moderation. I recognize it can be really bad, heavy handed mods. I just think clear rules would be good since some of the data was deleted from Boulder canyon shit thread, but not the bad bolts guy Jim one?

Heavy handed moderation kills forums.

don'tchuffonme · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 25
Chris Blatchley wrote: Is it ok to call out people by name and try them in the court of public opinion? 
Yes.
 Should this be a ban-able offence?

No.

grog m · · Saltlakecity · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

MP is absolutely the place/court where climbing infractions should be discussed.

I know MP doesn't support 'free speech' (it is lame that its a popularity contest with Nick Wilder) but it doesn't need to be moderated by someone going blind with imaginary power. 

Chalk Norris · · Brighton, CO · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 130

Whats crazy is my post got deleted by MP admin on the $hit thread and I did not say names, private info, or anything.  I did tell others to check FB but said no names just check the girlfriends page.  Get off your high horses.  If you do stupid shit, expect to get called out for it.  We are turning this world into a bunch of softies. What happened to freedom of speech?

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 959

As one who has had a generous amount of crap aimed my way, early on particularly?

Surprisingly? I still come down on guideline  #1 being kept in mind, and that, plus flagging being sufficient. The vigorous back and forth very often, gets back to pretty good points.

The real difficulty, though, is that MP ONLY HAS ONE MODERATOR. People don't realize that "admin" is just a kind person who does stuff for the content on MP, not ​the forums. Forums are our ​responsibility. If someone is being an ass, call them out. If someone is being an ass in their replies, call them out. If you are the one targeted by an ass? Speak up. My experience with this? If you reply coherently and reasonably, MP will do so also. I also take it offline and actually talk to folks, "trolls" included. But, I'm a badass, unlike most of you snowflakes, eh? ;-)

TL,DR? Nick can't be expected to "moderate" every post ever made on here.

Best, Helen

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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