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New Ten Sleep guide

Original Post
Cheddar · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 6,054
Colin OBrien · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 140

Given the controversy surrounding the recent development, who is putting out this guidebook?  Is this the next-gen Huey and co guidebook, or is this the drill/chip/glue crew?

Cheddar · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 6,054
Colin O'Brien wrote: Given the controversy surrounding the recent development, who is putting out this guidebook?  Is this the next-gen Huey and co guidebook, or is this the drill/chip/glue crew?

There is literally a video with Huey talking to you.

Colin OBrien · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 140

Welp - watched the vid.  Huey talked to me.  Buying a copy now.  

I didn’t see the vid on mobile immediately, and the lack of info elsewhere sent the flag up.  

Buy this!  Also, join the bighorn climbers coalition.

Edit: also, holy shit.  You responded within 30seconds of my post.  

Sawyer W · · Van · Joined May 2018 · Points: 0

Why do people gotta chip n glue man? Like what’s the motive?

I F · · Pennsylvania · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 2,007

Small dick, big ego, thinning wallet. 

Cheddar · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 6,054

It's important to fund these guys and keep the money out of the chipping groups hands.  Make all their work meaningless.

Benjamin Chapman · · Small Town, USA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 13,732

How can you make the choppers, drillers, and gluers work meaningless, Cheddar? The issue raled on for seventeen pages on the Mountain Project forum. Sinking $$ into the competitors guidebook isn't going to change a thing. If you want to affect a change, sack up and go chop some routes. That would make their work meaningless. Put words into action...that would be meaningful.

Ned Plimpton · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 111
Sawyer W wrote: Why do people gotta chip n glue man? Like what’s the motive?

I think their motive is to go sport climbing.

Sport climbing in the US in generally on choss.  Steep choss often needs reinforcement and “chipping” is often one more (or less) swing of a hammer when cleaning.  If you sport climb, I guarantee you’ve climbed on “enhanced” holds but just didn’t know it.

That being said, I don’t condone top to bottom manufacture of routes in Ten Sleep.  But please realize that, like most, this isn’t a white or black issue (discussed ad nauseam in other threads).  Local ethic should always dictate route development methods.

Lena chita · · OH · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 1,070

Disapproving of chipping and gluing is not enough to make me support another Huey guidebook.

I want a guidebook that is actually useful. Not a book full of adolescent humor and psychedelic pictures that lacks basic directions, good topos, and useful route descriptions.

“This is dope” and “do this route!” accompanied by pictures of guns and ammunition is neither useful, nor amusing. I’ll pass. 

Colin OBrien · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 140

While I understand the hesitation, I think you should reconsider for a few reasons.

First, Huey and co have shifted, it seems, after the ten sleep bible, to producing guidebooks that benefit the BCC and ten sleep climbing itself. I’m not super up to speed on the rakkup guides, but Huey’s ten sleep guides post-punk rock are putting dollars into the hands of people rebolting, fixing anchors, and making sure human waste doesn’t overcome the crags. That alone to me is worth the 35 if you climb at ten sleep with any frequency.  

Next, the Huey guides are accurate as well as ridiculous.  They give the area a sense of the absurd that feels appropriate, given the stellar climbing juxtaposed with a quiet Wyoming mountain town.  And once you get used to the Huey rating system and description, you realize that he does a fine job walking the line between encouraging you to try new routes and not giving away the beta. If a route demands a stick clip, he’ll say it.  But he won’t tell you to hit the crux pocket left handed and look for an undercling.  Moreover, the descriptions lend a sense of place that can be washed away by guidebooks.  Ten Sleep is different.  It’s an odd place that is reflected in the eccentricity of the guide. I’ve yet to find a guidebook as aesthetic and fun.

Also, I really do feel like buying Louie’s guide is unconscionable.  

Ned Plimpton · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 111

Just FYI, according to his site, 100% of the Huey guidebook profits go to anchor replacements, trail building, porta-potties, etc.

Go Back to Super Topo · · Back of my truck · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 260
Lena chita wrote: Disapproving of chipping and gluing is not enough to make me support another Huey guidebook.

I want a guidebook that is actually useful. Not a book full of adolescent humor and psychedelic pictures that lacks basic directions, good topos, and useful route descriptions.

“This is dope” and “do this route!” accompanied by pictures of guns and ammunition is neither useful, nor amusing. I’ll pass. 

You are in the vast minority as guidebook has been useful enough to navigate far too many people to the climbs. 

Billcoe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 860

We should all support those who are putting up routes with gear only, and not with bolts, in Ten Sleep canyon....I hear.

Bryan · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 351

I pleged. Super psyched to support it. Tried to find a copy last year in town and couldn't get one. New edition looks awesome.

Go Back to Super Topo · · Back of my truck · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 260
Billcoe wrote: We should all support those who are putting up routes with gear only, and not with bolts, in Ten Sleep canyon....I hear.

You do realize one of TS’s mantra is “bolt the world” right...? The issue was with those individuals who were drilling and manufacturing routes to make them more climbable for the masses. 

Leron · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 1,046
Go Back to Super Topo wrote:

You are in the vast minority as guidebook has been useful enough to navigate far too many people to the climbs. 

I disagree with this comment.  I went awhile ago and the bible was the only guide available to us. We did find the climbs, but ended up on some utter choss that was rated with American flags/5 stars.  Pulled off many holds found 2 bolts about to fall out. This was a 12C that was far harder due to all the missing and loose holds than the 13s we tried. The other 4 star routes on that crag faired no better.  Once we realized that we needed to only use the guide book to find the climbs and not for their descriptions or quality ratings, then it was useful-ish. 

Once at a crag the bible sat uselessly in the bottom of our bag. We climbed whatever looked good instead of what was clamed in that book to be "banging, Killer, ect.."  I have found almost any other guide book to provide better information.  This was not just my opinion but the consensus of the 5 climbers in our group. It was entertaining to look at though I will give you that.  I also like that the money is going to development.  I just have come to expect better info in a book that is sold to provide info.  May it should be sold in the fiction section.

I think we have two groups of climbers, those who are all about the climbing and those who focus on the life-style and attitude.  The Bible targets the latter and that is fine.  I just wish I would have been warned to get another book for real information before I made my trip out there.
Easy Cheese · · Denver, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0
Lena chita wrote: Disapproving of chipping and gluing is not enough to make me support another Huey guidebook.

I want a guidebook that is actually useful. Not a book full of adolescent humor and psychedelic pictures that lacks basic directions, good topos, and useful route descriptions.

“This is dope” and “do this route!” accompanied by pictures of guns and ammunition is neither useful, nor amusing. I’ll pass. 

The Huey guidebook is awesome, weird, and downright delightful. It makes Ten Sleep more magical every time we go!! This opinion makes me sad. Who needs complete and detailed route descriptions for sport climbing?? Also the key is pretty accurate IMO. LSD tabs = 5+ stars. Cats = 3 stars. American flags = 5 stars. AKs = 4 stars. 

Lena chita · · OH · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 1,070
Colin O'Brien wrote: While I understand the hesitation, I think you should reconsider for a few reasons.

First, Huey and co have shifted, it seems, after the ten sleep bible, to producing guidebooks that benefit the BCC and ten sleep climbing itself. I’m not super up to speed on the rakkup guides, but Huey’s ten sleep guides post-punk rock are putting dollars into the hands of people rebolting, fixing anchors, and making sure human waste doesn’t overcome the crags. That alone to me is worth the 35 if you climb at ten sleep with any frequency.  

Next, the Huey guides are accurate as well as ridiculous.  They give the area a sense of the absurd that feels appropriate, given the stellar climbing juxtaposed with a quiet Wyoming mountain town.  And once you get used to the Huey rating system and description, you realize that he does a fine job walking the line between encouraging you to try new routes and not giving away the beta. If a route demands a stick clip, he’ll say it.  But he won’t tell you to hit the crux pocket left handed and look for an undercling.  Moreover, the descriptions lend a sense of place that can be washed away by guidebooks.  Ten Sleep is different.  It’s an odd place that is reflected in the eccentricity of the guide. I’ve yet to find a guidebook as aesthetic and fun.

Also, I really do feel like buying Louie’s guide is unconscionable.  

I can support BCC without buying a guidebook I do not like.

Yes, I have bought, in the past, the post-HolyBible Ten Sleep guidebook, rationalizing it as support for BCC. Before that, I had a friend's copy of the first edition of the guidebook (the one that came before the "Holy Bible"). It is, by far, the worst climbing guidebook I own, both in quality of the printed book itself, and the information contained inside, and I wish I had not bought it.

I love guidebooks, I even have some guidebooks to places I haven't yet visited, just because I was contemplating going there. And for the areas that I visit repeatedly I usually buy every edition of the guidebooks as they come out, because I believe that supporting the authors who put in time and effort into producing the guidebooks is very important. So when I say that Huey's guidebook sucks, I am not saying it lightly. It is the only guidebook that I have ever bought that I regretted buying, so I am not going to buy the new version.

And no, I am not looking for a guidebook that tells me about hidden underclings in the cruxes. And I don't need a guidebook to tell me when to use a stick clip, either.  I just want the guidebook that tells me how to find routes. I don't have a book in front of me right now, so I may be misremembering the exact details for this example, but I think it was the Cocaine Rodeo (but possibly some other 5-star classic route that we were looking for). We expected to see a topo or description of how to find this route. Instead, you'd find that there are routes next to it, all listed as "three to the left of Cocaine Rodeo' or "4 to the right of Cocaine Rodeo", and the listing for Cocaine Rodeo, simply says, "DO THIS ROUTE!!!!" Yes, we eventually found the route we were looking for. By asking people who knew the routes. We might as well not had the guidebook. 


If I'm in the minority of this, then nobody is going to feel the sting of one guidebook not-bought by me. But I'm certainly not going to support a guidebook I hate, not even if it were the only option. "Buy this book, because the other guy is bad" is not a good-enough reason for me to buy either guidebook.
Go Back to Super Topo · · Back of my truck · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 260
Leron wrote:

I disagree with this comment.  I went awhile ago and the bible was the only guide available to us. We did find the climbs, but ended up on some utter choss that was rated with American flags/5 stars.  Pulled off many holds found 2 bolts about to fall out. This was a 12C that was far harder due to all the missing and loose holds than the 13s we tried. The other 4 star routes on that crag faired no better.  Once we realized that we needed to only use the guide book to find the climbs and not for their descriptions or quality ratings, then it was useful-ish. 

Once at a crag the bible sat uselessly in the bottom of our bag. We climbed whatever looked good instead of what was clamed in that book to be "banging, Killer, ect.."  I have found almost any other guide book to provide better information.  This was not just my opinion but the consensus of the 5 climbers in our group. It was entertaining to look at though I will give you that.  I also like that the money is going to development.  I just have come to expect better info in a book that is sold to provide info.  May it should be sold in the fiction section.

I think we have two groups of climbers, those who are all about the climbing and those who focus on the life-style and attitude.  The Bible targets the latter and that is fine.  I just wish I would have been warned to get another book for real information before I made my trip out there. 
Soooo the guidebook helped you find the climbs, contributing to the crowds, or not....?

I get that not every guidebook can be like wolverines and walk you straight to the bottom of the line, but I am using the pistol guidebook and have not gotten lost getting to a single wall in TS, including the jungle gym, ark, toomy town and other ambitious (at best) descriptions. Part of the fun of going to a new wall is a little bit of unknown and trying to “route find”. 

In any regard, It’s leaps and bounds better than any falcon guide, and honestly if you can’t find the “good” (spoilers! They are the ones with hordes of people under them) climbs in TS, then go to Wild Iris for early July. The international climbers fest supports a good cause and you definitely will be able to identify any line with bolts on it. 
Leron · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 1,046
Go Back to Super Topo wrote: Soooo the guidebook helped you find the climbs, contributing to the crowds, or not....?

I get that not every guidebook can be like wolverines and walk you straight to the bottom of the line, but I am using the pistol guidebook and have not gotten lost getting to a single wall in TS, including the jungle gym, ark, toomy town and other ambitious (at best) descriptions. Part of the fun of going to a new wall is a little bit of unknown and trying to “route find”. 

In any regard, It’s leaps and bounds better than any falcon guide, and honestly if you can’t find the “good” (spoilers! They are the ones with hordes of people under them) climbs in TS, then go to Wild Iris for early July. The international climbers fest supports a good cause and you definitely will be able to identify any line with bolts on it. 

I will admit it helped us find the climbs.  My issue was the good lines were not found by using the guide book.  Once at a crag it was far better to just get in a line as the book put us on absolute choss. If there was no lines to be seen, then we should just pack up and move to another area as the entire area was likely choss. We climbed at an area or two that were raining holds before we decided to  just go where the crowds were.  I have found other books to feature more accurate information.  Other guide books have also made it easier to identify the climbs: grade, locations, quality, and style.

That type of info is what I am looking for in a book.  If it is just as easy to find the crag and then put the book in my bag to no longer be used then I don't think it is worth having. 

I would agree that Iris is good climbing and the cause is good.    

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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