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Simpson Titen HD


M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5
Greg Barnes wrote:“5-piece are incredibly versatile and not sensitive to installation, “

I would also take issue with this. 5pc are very sensitive to undersized holes caused by worn bits. Additionally, the holes need to be nearly as dust free as adhesive anchors or the end cone can foul and result in an immediate spinner. Torque on the 3/8” ss model is finicky too and rarely achieved properly without a torque wrench. The multi component assembly is a nightmare on lead jangling around in bolt bag.


That said, I have gotten proficient at placing them but looking forward to other legitimate options.
Mh 
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

Concrete screws, not suprisingly I´ve looked into them a bit. And tested some as well.
They originally came from a German company (HECO) who are still the specialists for them (they even make them in HCR stainless). The Australian first investigated them for climbing as a replacement for the infamous Carrot bolts but found in their sandstone the results weren´t what they were looking for (they loosen up), Miki Law knows all about them. The DAV in germany also tested them which is where I got involved, the numbers were ok in some types of rock but in others they were virtually impossible to install and the threads stripped off which you don´t know unless you remove the bolt for inspection. The big drawback of the stainless versions (the threads galling and ripping off) was cured by adding a steel tip BUT this then put them out of the European standard for climbing anchors as it specifies the whole anchor must be of the same material. They then also don´t conform to UIAA and so are of no interest commercially as climbing equipment in Europe. It didn´t particularly help that at that time the European Technical Approval was only for use as temporary fastenings for scaffolding etc.
Without an impact driver they can be impossible to install in the recommended hole in hard rock which lead to people posting on the internet (including on MP) that they were drilling the holes oversize to be able to install them at which point everyones interest dissapeared. There is more than just the pull-out numbers one has to consider before introducing products to the general market!

M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

While it's interesting to hear the early development of similar products, it sounds like the design has evolved. The Simpson product is rated for use in concrete up to 8500 psi.

evaluation report

In my (and others) experience, these work very well in hard rock without an oversize hole. These have been used in Index and Darrington Granite, here is a link to an old State Geological publication that identifies Index material in the realm of 10000 psi, which is higher than the samples I've seen and likely higher than Darrington rock, being slightly more compact. Perhaps a change in test methods? Regardless, the good granite here is hard.

Index Granite properties

Many previous manufacturers used a brazed on steel tip, which was a corrosion issue to be sure. These have a single helical thread brazed to the stainless. The actual ratio of SS to carbon steel is tiny:

Bimetal corrosion

I'm confused as to why anyone would think a small impact gun is a stumbling block when we consider that installing glue ins strongly resembles a construction site and sequencing. Blowers, brushes, trash bags, rags, bosun chairs, long big bits,extra batteries, cooler for glue, hand warmers for glue, caulking gun, glue cartridges, etc.

Rather than introducing these to the general market, I have taken a measured approach that includes several years of use in very obscure areas, lots of shop testing, lots of field testing (and more coming), and growing knowledge and confidence in them. My aim is to open this up for discussion and really to begin the process of introducing improved mechanical anchor techniques beyond the wedge anchor, PowerBolt 5 pc, and glue ins that are going in at a high rate of speed. The only way we can have this discussion is by sharing experience, test data, and having an open mind.

I fully agree that pull out numbers are but one piece of the puzzle. In each thread where this has come up, I propose a list of features and characteristics we would find desirable. So far I haven't gotten a lot of feedback on that list. So here it is once again:

A valid replacement would have the following merits:

1) Removability
2) Ease of Inspection
3) Low Cost
4) 316 or better material
5) High strength to diameter of hole needed
6) One piece construction
7) Full diameter shank at the shear plane
8) Easy Installation
9) Works in most if not all rock types
10) Vibration and cyclic load resistant

Greg and Jim-

Please PM your addresses and I'll mail you 10 each at no cost to play with, scrutinize, assess, test, and report back with your findings.

Cheers and Beers!

MH

M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

Jim, do you know of any research that has been done in chemical hardening of soft stones? I have done a fair amount of very low viscosity injection epoxies (think light machine oil) that are used in concrete repair and would probably be thin enough to penetrate a sandstone matrix....

Just an aside of interest.

Mh 

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

Sending some to me would be a major hassle since I´m in Germany, the last time I got a couple of 1/2" drill bits sent over it took me all morning to get them out of customs including driving there and back and paying a couple of € tax! A real pissoff since the f#cking things were Boch and made in Germany in the first place!!!
I just wasted half an hour searching for them here, Simpson products are widely available but the concrete screws aren´t. Guess I´m a bit slow as it´s Sunday morning because then I realised that´s because they are Imperial dimensioned so we wouldn´t have the drill bits or tools to screw them in. I´ve an adress in the US you could send them to (my importer) as he can carry them over when he visits end of the month and bring a drill bit as well.
The common ones here are the Heco Multi Monti which have a hard-steel toothed tip, the Fischer one which just says the end is specially hardened and the Schäfer ones which have tungsten carbide lumps brazed on to make cutting teeth, I´ll get hold of some to try them. The Schäfer ones look cool but the price doesn´t! The Fischer is the only one certified to be backed out a bit (20mm) and re-fitted to install stuff underneath, the others re-using the hole isn´t permitted.
The stone restoration guys have done loads of work on epoxy hardening rock, there´s a long pdf from the Getty Foundation about it somehwere I read once. From memory the problem is it takes ages (hours or days) to get penetration and the epoxy has to be thinned with like 90% acetone, doesn´t sound like something I´d want to do on a cliff. I´m just making some bolts for a soft sandstone area in the UK and I know they have tried various thing to preserve the holds, I´ll ask them what they know.
P.S the Getty paper is here; getty.edu/conservation/publ…

M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

Thanks Jim, great info!

MH

Nate Doyle · · Sierra Foothills · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 39

Not sure this adds much to the conversation but, fwiw...



Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Fixed Hardware: Bolts & Anchors
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