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Petzl removable bolts


Original Post
Ma Ja · · Red River Gorge · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 116
Anyone have any thoughts or experience with these? @Jim Titt and @Dave Quinn, my thoughts were these would be a great option for a temporary top anchor for Glue In routes where I didnt have the chance to set top anchors the day before bolting. I've always heard the fixe removables only work well in granite or other hard rock, and they'd get stuck in sandstone becasue of the obvious. These look like they wouldn't get stuck, but maybe I'm just being optimistic. Also, is there an issue with a smaller 12mm hole being drilled out to the 1/2" standard? Being a woodworker, I have trouble sometimes pulling this off cleanly in wood, but wasnt sure if this would be an issue in rock with a hammer drill.

I've heard a small rumor of a removable system coming from Jim, so I don't want to spend $140 on these if the next best thing is coming soon.

https://m.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Anchors/COEUR-PULSE

Side question...
Can I safely work off of Glue In anchors that were installed right away, using AC100 Gold or A7 glue? I've always been worried of "breaking bond" by moving around on newly placed glue ins. Is that a concern? If that's not a concern, then the removable bolts wont be needed.
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

I've never used the Petzl bolts so no help there, if I want a working bolt then it is a wedge bolt. Never drilled 12mm to 1/2" either!
Also no plans for a removable, I've a 10mm Totem one (like Climb Tech) if I needed one.
Never used the resins you mentioned either so not a lot of help I'm afraid.

Ma Ja · · Red River Gorge · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 116
Jim Titt wrote: I've never used the Petzl bolts so no help there, if I want a working bolt then it is a wedge bolt. Never drilled 12mm to 1/2" either!
Also no plans for a removable, I've a 10mm Totem one (like Climb Tech) if I needed one.
Never used the resins you mentioned either so not a lot of help I'm afraid.

Do you use a bolt puller to get the wedge bolt out, or is there a brand that comes out easily with no extra tools needed?

Roy Suggett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 7,825

This means that those that follow will have to carry these or other like hardware, with really good eyes, to see the holes for those that place them on route?

Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,823

I'd use Triplex with 12mm hole hangers for temporary bolts, they're super easy to remove, just loosen the nut and yank out with a quickdraw.

Drilling 12mm to 1/2" is really begging for badly stuck drill bits. Why not use standard 10mm glue-ins, then you don't have to mess with the hole at all (other than notching the rock if needed, and assuming you drilled the initial hole deep enough - and of course cleaning the hole super well for the glue-ins). Another option would be to expand the hole for a larger size glue-in like the large Twisted Leg bolts (5/8" hole), that'd be a great option particularly for softer rock.

In hard rock I also use Powers "4-pieces" which are the 3/8" x 1 7/8" length carbon steel Power-Bolts, which are no longer made. You can easily grab the sleeve and pull it out (after tapping the cone in to disengage it), then funk out the cone with no problem. But they were only available for a year or two and may be hard to find.

I think most people just drill a deep hole and use 3/8" wedge bolts, then once done pound them in and patch the hole. But that leaves extra holes which can be hard to patch effectively in some rock types. You could also spin the bolts out if you're setup for bolt removal, then expand the hole to 1/2".

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Ma Ja wrote:

Do you use a bolt puller to get the wedge bolt out, or is there a brand that comes out easily with no extra tools needed?

It becomes part of the belay or is left for people to puzzle over! What about the Legacy bolts?

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Roy Suggett wrote: This means that those that follow will have to carry these or other like hardware, with really good eyes, to see the holds for those that place them on route?

We are talking about working bolts for the developer.

Darren Mabe · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,885

I use the Climb Tech 1/2" RBs

Shaniac · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 12

Classic video of the designer of the climb-tech RB taking a whipper on one. Enjoy. vimeo.com/10674868&nbsp

Corey Day · · Philadelphia · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 5

According to A7's product literature: at 60F you have 7min to play with the anchor (0% strength), between 7min-35min the cure reaction happens, at 35min (100% strength).
I probably wouldn't move the hanger around too much after you've placed it or else you could create voids that will harden permanently in there.
See the installation instructions and cure times on this link: ITW REDHEAD A7 LIT

Luke Bertelsen · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Feb 2005 · Points: 4,017

I've used the ClimbTech and Petzl removables a lot.  I like them both, but the Petzl bolts are more hassle free.  I have had two of the ClimbTech bolts get stuck.  Recent I was able to get one out by drilling around it to finally work it out, and it is was the trigger that stopped working..........anyhow.  Only issue with the Petzl is needing a specific bit size just for them, but they work great in my experience.

Also, regarding drilling out holes - we do 3/8" ---> 1/2" often, but I have never done 12mm ---> 1/2".  With the holes being close in size I could see there being and issue if you were using a mechanical bolt.  Maybe sometimes it works fine and others there is an issues.  Would that depend on a new bit versus old??  Lots of variable here.

Darren Mabe · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,885
Shaniac wrote: Classic video of the designer of the climb-tech RB taking a whipper on one. Enjoy. vimeo.com/10674868&nbsp

That was a 3/4" RB I believe.

I tested a few falls on a 1/2" RB a while back:


I've used the crap out of the RBs for many different applications on several rock types with no issues.
Ma Ja · · Red River Gorge · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 116

There's a local guy that was sponsored by Fixe and got the RB's at cost and ended up getting all of them stuck over a pretty short period of time. Sandstone is not what they were designed for. The grains must interfere, or at least interact in the wedge and they get permanently siezed.

As for the Legacy bolts, the Triplex looks much more appealing to me, and I like that they're reusable and come out easily. I really like the all in one thread and wedge idea.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback, i think ive got a plan. The Fixe Triplex seem to be the least wasteful and the easiest to remove. I'll report back once I give it a go.

Luke Bertelsen · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Feb 2005 · Points: 4,017

Have you heard poor reviews of the Legacy Bolt?  Odd as I have used them with great success as temporary placements.  I have never used the Triplex, mainly because of the poor reviews I have read on those.  

Ma Ja · · Red River Gorge · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 116
Luke Bertelsen wrote: Have you heard poor reviews of the Legacy Bolt?  Odd as I have used them with great success as temporary placements.  I have never used the Triplex, mainly because of the poor reviews I have read on those.  

I haven't read anything on the legacy bolt, but just assumed it isnt reusable.

Luke Bertelsen · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Feb 2005 · Points: 4,017
Ma Ja wrote:

I haven't read anything on the legacy bolt, but just assumed it isnt reusable.

It sure is.

John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 612

I'd say they are a waste of money.  

For temporary bolts I use hardware store 3"x 3/8" sleeve or wedge bolts, non-stainless, non-plated.  They cost under a dollar.

I over-drill (full depth of the drill) the holes.  Then, when the glue-ins are done, I remove the nuts and hangers (re-use) and pound the temp bolt into the rock, then counter-sink it so it's over an inch below the surface.   In the limestone I work in, the hole fills in by itself and disappears, but you could also use a bit of glue and sand to make it disappear, too.

If you're waiting for the AC-100 to harden enough for you to weight the bolt, then it's hardening in the nozzle too.   Huge waste of glue and you need to have a lot of nozzles.

M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

Simpson Titen mini HD
3/8x 1.75” no hammer needed. Works in granite limestone sandstone gneiss
One piece easy removal. About a buck

Cheers

M Hanna

Rob warden The space lizard · · Now...where? · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 0

1/2 cobra bolt then 1/2 wavebolt

Darren Mabe · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,885

I feel like we've done this thread a few times

Ma Ja · · Red River Gorge · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 116
Darren Mabe wrote: I feel like we've done this thread a few times

Maybe so, but it helped me a lot. I wish there was a cheap option like the Triplex that are 1/2". I hate buying two sizes of bits for .07" of difference.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Fixed Hardware: Bolts & Anchors
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