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Pepper spray for dogs


Fehim Hasecic · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 155

A call to local Animal Control would probably prevent future incidents by a particular dog. I’ve known a person that their dog was put down after a third offense. Here’s the Boulder County Animal Control ordinance
https://assets.bouldercounty.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/ordinance-animal-control.pdf

Charles Vernon · · mind & body in Colorado, he… · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 2,614
PosiDave wrote:

Say I see you approaching me and I am suspicious of humans. So I use the pepper spray Because of my own personal thoughts and it turns out you were minding your own business doing nothing wrong.


How open to a lawsuit does that leave me? If you spray a dog that was doing nothing wrong what other consequences could that entail? 
There are tons of shitty dogs, but there are also a ton of incompetent morons who shouldn’t be walking around. I had someone almost hit my dog because he “looked” scary. He has shown zero aggression toward a human ever. My friend also has a Malinois who is a working dog that people freak out about (he is a Rescue dog). Personally if you spray a dog who didn’t attack you just expect someone to possibly attack you as it could potentially puts you as the aggressor if you over react in a situation.
Pepper spray/firearms/knife/etc should only be used when you 1000% know the situation has no other way out of it and you know in fact you are in danger. 

Edit: if you sprayed my dog who wasn’t attacking you, i’d React as you were attacking my family which means you now have a firearm or knife heading your way
If a 6yr old child hits me or run on me does this allow me to punt him? He obviously has less training than my dog and serves less purpose than a rescue animal.


You're concerned with others overreacting to your dog, but yet you're going to knife or stab someone because they used non-lethal force on your dog (who you were unwilling to leash)?

Edit to add: I appreciate your concern that people not get carried away with the idea of pepper-spraying dogs. I just think your evident willingness to resort to lethal force in a situation where it's not warranted is really scary, and, if that's really how you feel, honestly wish you would reconsider. Scares me to think people are carrying weapons to the crag and so readily willing to use them.

What would you do if someone felt bothered by your dog and asked you to leash it up or otherwise keep it away?
O · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65
Trad Man wrote: Gee, I wonder what the chances are that the dog was unleashed

The dog was off leash (in a area where it is legal). Riders poach a “closed to bike” section of trail to not have to cross a busy road. 

Regardless the dog did nothing wrong and the person simply overreacted because of his issues with dogs in the past. (Which is why you need to be positive the dog is trying to bother you and you are in the right).

Eric · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 10
PosiDave wrote:

 If you spray a dog that was doing nothing wrong what other consequences could that entail? 

IIRC damage to a dog is treated as property damage.  You do not get loss of consortium et al

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Chris Little wrote: Here's the deal: Most pepper spray manufactured for people, dogs, or other likely attackers is intentionally made with a fairly weak formula. That way, it won't kill the attacker, and the manufacturer won't have to deal with a lawsuit for making a "Lethal" weapon that should only stop an attack. In other words, pepper spray is usually ineffective.
None of that is correct, and any of the pepper sprays can indeed kill someone with asthma or CPOD.

When I went to school to get a CDL, the lady who ran the course told us that most companies require their employees to be defenseless. (They don't allow them to have weapons, including pepper spray.) She recommended wasp spray, saying it was the exact same formulation as bear spray.
Absolutely not true. Pepper spray active ingredient is capsaicin, the active heat ingredient from cayenne peppers, is used in the temporarily debilitating pepper spray weapons for personal protection. Canisters of pepper spray (also known as OC spray or oleoresin capsicum) dispense a solution containing capsaicin, an inflammatory agent which affects the eyes, respiratory system, skin and muscle coordination.

Wasp sprays contain pyrethrins or pyrethroids. They are derived from a species of the chrysanthemum plant and affect the nervous system. Specifically they are an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, iirc. This paralyzes the smooth muscles in the airway and lungs, leading to suffocation.
John Denver · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 0

Your crag dog is totally blowing my super chill prep to send the most EPIC 12- at the crag. He drank all my gnarly pre workout and just started chewing on my portable hangboard.  Super not chill dude, I train hard dude. You're dogs blowing my sends dude...

ima just go ahead and pepper spray him then...

WTF?  You guys are kooks. Stay at clear creek or whatever other colorado dipshit crags you hang at.

Andy Eiter · · Madison, WI · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 126

If dogs attack when they smell fear, how come I've never been bit after leading anything above 5.7? Checkmate!

I've been charged by a dog once. I was walking down an empty street at night and a dark growling shadow came sprinting up from behind, totally unprovoked. By the time I had turned and seen it, it was within a few meters, a fraction of a second from making contact. My buddy's reaction was to scream at it, which worked, but my reaction likely would've been to kick it.

I know people like to say "you're feelings don't matter," but in law, what is reasonable for an average person to feel does matter. I think it's pretty reasonable to fear for your life/limb when being charged by a dog.

NegativeK · · Nevada · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 40
PosiDave wrote:

Say I see you approaching me and I am suspicious of humans. So I use the pepper spray Because of my own personal thoughts and it turns out you were minding your own business doing nothing wrong.


How open to a lawsuit does that leave me? If you spray a dog that was doing nothing wrong what other consequences could that entail? 
There are tons of shitty dogs, but there are also a ton of incompetent morons who shouldn’t be walking around. I had someone almost hit my dog because he “looked” scary. He has shown zero aggression toward a human ever. My friend also has a Malinois who is a working dog that people freak out about (he is a Rescue dog). Personally if you spray a dog who didn’t attack you just expect someone to possibly attack you as it could potentially puts you as the aggressor if you over react in a situation.
Pepper spray/firearms/knife/etc should only be used when you 1000% know the situation has no other way out of it and you know in fact you are in danger. 

Edit: if you sprayed my dog who wasn’t attacking you, i’d React as you were attacking my family which means you now have a firearm or knife heading your way
If a 6yr old child hits me or run on me does this allow me to punt him? He obviously has less training than my dog and serves less purpose than a rescue animal.

This is summarized as "don't be a dick."

Don't be a dick as a dog owner. Don't be a dick around innocent dogs.
Fehim Hasecic · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 155
PosiDave wrote:

Say I see you approaching me and I am suspicious of humans. So I use the pepper spray Because of my own personal thoughts and it turns out you were minding your own business doing nothing wrong.


How open to a lawsuit does that leave me? If you spray a dog that was doing nothing wrong what other consequences could that entail? 
There are tons of shitty dogs, but there are also a ton of incompetent morons who shouldn’t be walking around. I had someone almost hit my dog because he “looked” scary. He has shown zero aggression toward a human ever. My friend also has a Malinois who is a working dog that people freak out about (he is a Rescue dog). Personally if you spray a dog who didn’t attack you just expect someone to possibly attack you as it could potentially puts you as the aggressor if you over react in a situation.
Pepper spray/firearms/knife/etc should only be used when you 1000% know the situation has no other way out of it and you know in fact you are in danger. 

Edit: if you sprayed my dog who wasn’t attacking you, i’d React as you were attacking my family which means you now have a firearm or knife heading your way
If a 6yr old child hits me or run on me does this allow me to punt him? He obviously has less training than my dog and serves less purpose than a rescue animal.

Yup, didn’t take long to compare children to dogs.

O · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65
Eric wrote:

IIRC damage to a dog is treated as property damage.  You do not get loss of consortium et al

You can win a civil court lawsuit 

Also most states have an animal abuse law “knowingly cause pain or suffering to an animal” is a misdemeanor or felony. If you are carrying pepper spray and the dog didn’t attack you, it is on you to prove that. 
Furthermore, If you pepper spray (provoke or attack) first, the dog/owner are held free of any charges if the dog attacks you. 
Also, if you attack someone’s animal (without proof it was threatening you), the owner has every right to also protect his animal (in some states it is legal To use deadly force to stop someone from stealing/destroying your property, especially if they have already showed aggression).
I understand spraying/hitting a dog that is actually attacking you. But a dog that runs in your generalDirection or growls isn’t attacking you. If you think it’s justifiable, that is fine but realize your unchecked aggression can put you in law/physical trouble. 
Matthew Bertolatus · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined Aug 2018 · Points: 10

Are there any crags where off-leash dogs are allowed?  Not in any national park, state park, or city park that I'm aware of.  Maybe on private land somewhere, but that's gotta be a minority.  Odds are if you're at a crag with an off-leash dog, you're almost certainly breaking the rules at the outset.  

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Matthew Bertolatus wrote: Are there any crags where off-leash dogs are allowed?  Not in any national park, state park, or city park that I'm aware of.  Maybe on private land somewhere, but that's gotta be a minority.  Odds are if you're at a crag with an off-leash dog, you're almost certainly breaking the rules at the outset.  

You’re forgetting about BLM and USFS land. 

Ron O · · middle of nowhere, southern… · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0

Buck Rio, the 21 is for when my Sig 9 is a bit much.

Guy, what's a 38ACP?

I've got a Colt .380 that always goes bang.

Jaren Watson · · Idaho · Joined May 2010 · Points: 2,506
Trad Man wrote:

Good cop


This was excellent. Impressive work by the officer.

Buck Rio · · MN · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 11
Marc801 C wrote: None of that is correct, and any of the pepper sprays can indeed kill someone with asthma or CPOD.

Absolutely not true. Pepper spray active ingredient is capsaicin, the active heat ingredient from cayenne peppers, is used in the temporarily debilitating pepper spray weapons for personal protection. Canisters of pepper spray (also known as OC spray or oleoresin capsicum) dispense a solution containing capsaicin, an inflammatory agent which affects the eyes, respiratory system, skin and muscle coordination.

Wasp sprays contain pyrethrins or pyrethroids. They are derived from a species of the chrysanthemum plant and affect the nervous system. Specifically they are an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, iirc. This paralyzes the smooth muscles in the airway and lungs, leading to suffocation.

What is the shit the army gassed me with in basic and then again several times in the field? CS gas. 

I wish I had rack of that stuff. Absolutely effective and incapacitating. We used it a few times in Honduras when the commies got a little uppity. I guess it was either CS gas or FMJ bullets...

Why don't people just leave the dogs home??? It seems so fundamental to me. I do enjoy well behaved dogs, rare as they are it seems. I sat for 30 minutes petting one dog at the Canal Zone while being astounded by the various belay techniques being employed.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Buck Rio wrote:

What is the shit the army gassed me with in basic and then again several times in the field? CS gas. 

Aka tear gas.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-tear-gas-works-a-rundown-of-the-chemicals-used-on-crowds/


Buck Rio · · MN · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 11
Marc801 C wrote: Aka tear gas.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-tear-gas-works-a-rundown-of-the-chemicals-used-on-crowds/


The beauty of CS/CN/CR is that you can deliver it via a mortar tube, air burst it, and watch it shower down on people, then watch them 180 and run. 

Even WITH a proper NBC suit, you will likely still feel some of the effects of this nastiness.
Dana Bartlett · · CO · Joined Nov 2003 · Points: 890
Marc801 C wrote: None of that is correct, and any of the pepper sprays can indeed kill someone with asthma or CPOD.

Absolutely not true. Pepper spray active ingredient is capsaicin, the active heat ingredient from cayenne peppers, is used in the temporarily debilitating pepper spray weapons for personal protection. Canisters of pepper spray (also known as OC spray or oleoresin capsicum) dispense a solution containing capsaicin, an inflammatory agent which affects the eyes, respiratory system, skin and muscle coordination.

Wasp sprays contain pyrethrins or pyrethroids. They are derived from a species of the chrysanthemum plant and affect the nervous system. Specifically they are an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, iirc. This paralyzes the smooth muscles in the airway and lungs, leading to suffocation.

Bogging the thread down with minutiae. Sorry.

Marc,  it is the carbamate and the organophosphate insecticides that are acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, not the pyrethrins; these have a different mechanism of action, different clinical effects, and are much less toxic. 
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Dana Bartlett wrote:

Bogging the thread down with minutiae. Sorry.

Marc,  it is the carbamate and the organophosphate insecticides that are acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, not the pyrethrins; these have a different mechanism of action, different clinical effects, and are much less toxic. 

Of course. Biochem was a long time ago for me!

Rope Byrne · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 30

Everyone trying to claim that you should never use pepper spray to deter a dog who is attacking and stating that they'd attack the person who sprayed their dog probably have never been attacked by random dogs.

Even professional dog handlers can get bit by out of control dogs.  When I'm out on a trail minding my own business, I don't really want to have to teach an out of control dog any manners.  It's not my dog and it's not my concern.  It is always easier for folks to claim that the issue is with the person who gets bit then it is for those folks to take responsibility.

<csb>
I had a dog on a trail jog one time with my wife and my baby in a stroller (I was pushing).  The dog was unleashed and (we thought) under control.  When a family approached from the other direction, that dog charged at the Dad and was barking and lunging at him.  Yes, the guy was acting worried.  My dog didn't come back to us when we called him and my wife did not act fast enough to go grab our dog.  Anyway, the guy sprayed my dog and he backed down immediately.  I apologized to the other guy and we leashed up our dog and finished our jog.  My dog did a bit of sneezing and just acted pretty sheepish for the rest of the day.  He was fine.  It was not the other guy's fault, it was my fault because I thought that my dog was under control.  Needless to say, we kept him leashed after that incident.

Shit happens fast when a dog is charging or being aggressive.  You don't have 5 minutes to figure out how to respond.

I've also had an experience with a bigger puppy (maybe a year and a half old) on the trail.  He/she was unleashed and the owner could not control the dog.  The dog charged me and was making a game of trying to race in and bite me quick (it didn't) or try to knock me down.  I realized that the dog was just a puppy and that it wasn't actively trying to hurt me so I just waited.  The owner freaked out though and she was shrieking at me to not spray her dog (I had the pepper spray in hand and was just chillin' waiting for her to get her dog leashed up).  I told her, no sweat, just get your dog please.  After about 6-7 minutes of freak out from her and me slowly moving away, I was able to disengage.  Of course, freak out lady was also yelling at me to just walk away.  Yeah right, lady, as soon as I turn my back on your bundle of energy hound there, he's going to leap on my back and try to get me to come back and play with him.  I'm thrilled to play with dogs.  When I say so, not when a dog demands it.
</csb>

Sorry for the long post

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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