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better method needed?


Original Post
Ellen.tradgirl · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 5

Enjoyed a lovely, but busy, moderate this fall and came across more than one relatively new climber using very similar anchor method.  Let's take the time to make sure people understand some basics before getting into trouble.  It was a big ledge, but not always the case.
BigRed11 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 831

What's wrong with this?

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 507

looks fine to me except that tree is a little bit skinny. 

Dan Bachen · · Helena, MT · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 588

I'd be more concerned about the shrub they are anchored to than them using a PAS like this, less so if this is a good braced stance. Under what conditions do you think this would fail?

Ellen.tradgirl · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 5

I guess it is hard to see in the photo, but the wire gate is against the trunk.  I would prefer to see the locker used, and through one of the loops instead of a girth hitch with a non-locker.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

Let's start with "This is not a daisy chain."

Edit: The title of this thread (before it was changed) was something to the effect of "Better way to daisy to anchor?" Something like that.

Ellen.tradgirl · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 5

Yes, you are correct, I didn't know that the name was changed with the improved configuration.  Have never actually used either version.  

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,729
Ellen.tradgirl wrote: Yes, you are correct, I didn't know that the name was changed with the improved configuration.  Have never actually used either version.  

The name wasn’t changed.  A daisy chain and a PAS have always been 2 different things.

gumbie gene · · NJ · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0

Just to play along...

Probably could've girth hitched the PAS to the tree instead of to themselves and then used the two biners to attach themselves to their belay loop in order to improve the system OR used that 60 cm sling in the background to create an anchor and clip into OR used the other end of the rope to create a small anchor...BUT tbh this ledge looks big enough that they aren't in danger of falling.

While I completely agree anchoring themselves in could be done better, I personally wouldn't ask others to judge them on an online forum especially if they're newer climbers.

Thankfully, I had someone show me the ropes and maybe you did too, but maybe they weren't as fortunate and no one showed them any better you know? We all start somewhere. In the future, it might be better practice for you to give them a gentle hint next time you see something that obviously could be done better and ask them if they'd like you to show them (their ego allowing) especially if you're standing on a giant ledge waiting for the party above to finish up.

However, if their ego can't handle you showing them new things... at least yah tried you know? Cant fix stupid. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ellen.tradgirl · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 5

It was a big ledge, many parties waiting, people were jovial, and I think at least one person was already into his beers. No one was in danger of falling off, except possibly the belayer in question were she to get pulled up by a leader fall.  More than one person that day was girth hitched in a similar manner, the reason for posting was a gentle reminder to those with more experience to take an extra moment to make sure the less experienced partner is starting good habits. I guess that was a complete failure since it derailed over a side issue, but a good reminder for me not to waste time on the internet.

curt86iroc · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 53
Ellen.tradgirl wrote: It was a big ledge, many parties waiting, people were jovial, and I think at least one person was already into his beers. No one was in danger of falling off, except possibly the belayer in question were she to get pulled up by a leader fall.  More than one person that day was girth hitched in a similar manner, the reason for posting was a gentle reminder to those with more experience to take an extra moment to make sure the less experienced partner is starting good habits. I guess that was a complete failure since it derailed over a side issue, but a good reminder for me not to waste time on the internet.

did you talk to the climber in question or just take a sneaky pic of their setup to post on MP? sometimes people need advice..and a simple "hey there, let me show you something..." would have sufficed.

master gumby · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 152

would whip

gumbie gene · · NJ · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0

The master gumby has spoken.

master gumby · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 152

In all seriousness tho. WTF is going on here?

gumbie gene · · NJ · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0
master gumby wrote: In all seriousness tho. WTF is going on here?

SUMMARY FOR TLDR: Woman saw some gumbies doing gumbies things. Sneaked a photo of it to provide an example on MP. Tried to create discussion about it for some reason. It backfired cuz the interwebz and cause she probably should've just shown the gumbies right then and there how shit gets done and tradmom'ed the gumby ways out of them. 

Instead she posts on MP, some experienced ppl are like "I've probably done worse, it's a huge ledge, situational based pro needed, why did you make this post, etc., etc." and she got slightly roasted and is also thinking "why did I make this post" 
aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 294
Ellen.tradgirl wrote: No one was in danger of falling off, except possibly the belayer in question were she to get pulled up by a leader fall.
Are we sure the belayer isn't a chemical engineering major?

If this is how a belayer is anchored on the ground to belay a leader, it's a non-issue. Is it ideal? No, nor is belaying a leader while sitting down. I wouldn't belay like that, but it's not a skull and crossbones situation either.
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
aikibujin wrote: Are we sure the belayer isn't a chemical engineering major?

If this is how a belayer is anchored on the ground to belay a leader, it's a non-issue. Is it ideal? No, nor is belaying a leader while sitting down. I wouldn't belay like that, but it's not a skull and across situation either.

Is that like "skull and crossbones"?

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 294
FrankPS wrote:

Is that like "skull and crossbones"?

Yes, exactly like it.

Jason4Too · · Bellingham, Washington · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 0

Is this a ground anchor for a belayer that is belaying a leader on a large ledge?  Was the weight difference between the belayer and the climber very big?

shredward · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 0

This does not alarm me.  I have "anchored" myself more casually than this on large ledges

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,810

OP is advised never to go ice climbing.

"Yea, but it's frozen in"

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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