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Consensus on Safety Rating


Original Post
nathanael · · Riverside, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 518

Is the safety rating for a climb exclusively defined by the route submitter? For example this route has 26 ratings, only 1 person called it R, most called it G, and a couple PG13. But the route gets an R rating anyways. I feel like a consensus rating, like with the grades, would be better.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/stats/105723298/roan-way

Andrew Poet · · Central AZ · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 161
nathanael wrote: Is the safety rating for a climb exclusively defined by the route submitter? For example this route has 26 ratings, only 1 person called it R, most called it G, and a couple PG13. But the route gets an R rating anyways. I feel like a consensus rating, like with the grades, would be better.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/stats/105723298/roan-way

On the route you linked, the route submitter did not give a safety rating. The consensus must be set some other way.

Chuck Parks · · Atlanta, GA · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 2,155

Just tried messing around with the safety rating on a route that I submitted years ago. Indeed whenever I change the safety rating, the listing in Mountain Project immediately changes to reflect whatever I entered. (I verified this by checking the route page via a window in incognito mode.)

I suspect this is not a bug, but a "feature". When you submit a difficulty rating for a route, there's no way to not submit a protection rating. The default is presented as just "-", which turns out to mean "G" but could just as well be interpreted as "I don't have an opinion". Many folks may not have an opinion on protection: maybe they top roped the route, or followed some or all of the pitches. It could be very dangerous to have a bunch of people with no notion of the dangers of a route to be inadvertently softening it down from an X to a PG13.

I suppose they could redo how protection ratings are added. Add a "G" to the list of options, make all the existing "-" entries count for nothing, then build consensus from whatever ratings aren't a "-".

Nick Wilder · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2005 · Points: 3,879

The safety rating as presented on the route page is indeed whatever the original submitter entered.  Unlike difficulty, it does not take into account other opinions.  This isn't ideal, but doesn't seem to have come up too often and has never really made it as a priority.

nathanael · · Riverside, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 518
Nick Wilder wrote: The safety rating as presented on the route page is indeed whatever the original submitter entered.  Unlike difficulty, it does not take into account other opinions.  This isn't ideal, but doesn't seem to have come up too often and has never really made it as a priority.


fair enough
Andrew Poet · · Central AZ · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 161
Nick Wilder wrote: The safety rating as presented on the route page is indeed whatever the original submitter entered.  Unlike difficulty, it does not take into account other opinions.  This isn't ideal, but doesn't seem to have come up too often and has never really made it as a priority.
What am I missing about the linked route? It appears the submitter did not select "R" based on the route opinion list, but "R" is the consensus. 
Nick Wilder · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2005 · Points: 3,879
apoet wrote: What am I missing about the linked route? It appears the submitter did not select "R" based on the route opinion list, but "R" is the consensus. 

You're right.  That appears to have been a bug.  That route was submitted in 2002 (!!!) back in the climbingjtree.com days.  That means that route's data has been at through least 4 major revisions to the code, and one of them messed up.  I believe there was a brief period where a bug allowed any one Safety rating would override the past.  Anyways, that's not the case now and I removed the "R" from this route.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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