FEATURE (modification) REQUEST: Optimize "Condition Reports"

ASK:

Can 'Condition Reports' (CR's) be modified so that:

1) CR's appear at the top of the comment thread, similar to Access Issue appearing at the top of the page.
 (additionally, listing comments in reverse chronological order might be practical and aligned with natural conversation flow? -- Counter-argument might be that it invites more nonsensical spray, I suppose?)

2) CR's "disappear" after 90 days, but are still maintained in a CR archive somewhere on the route page visible on-demand to all users.
Or maybe there's room for implementing a 'toggle' for "show expired condition reports" (seems likely this is more complicated to engineer and implement, though)?

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BECAUSE:
Condition Reports seem like one of the most useful features on the site, especially when it comes to fixed gear (sport climbs) or delicate rock (red rock sandstone, etc).

I've noticed that Condition Reports fall into the normal flow of the comment thread on a site, are hard to differentiate, and are often responded to with standard comments.

This poses two potential problems:
1a) The user has to scroll through the entirety of a route's comment thread to find the relevant condition information at the bottom of the thread.
1b) For condition reports related to a potential safety/access issue, it's harder to realize the issue without doing extensive homework.

2a) When CR's do disappear, the conversational elements of route comment threads seem discombobulated and nonsensical.
2b) For CR's related to potential safety issues, route maintenance, access issues, or damage to rock - it would be valuable to have a structured log of how the route conditions have modified over time.

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CONTEXT/CONSIDERATIONS:
Of course, abuse of this feature is a possibility, but this optimization seems only as likely to invite abuse as any other feature on the site. Might be nice to get the voice of a moderator here, though, see what they think of the idea?

A couple examples of where this might be useful:

i) Damage to rock in Red Rock Canyon is a serious issue, especially when folks climb on the rock while it's still wet. Numerous examples of classic routes being altered permanently. These CR features would both help inform the general public and provide data as to how rapidly the problem is accelerating as traffic increases, and conservation efforts struggle to keep up.

ii) Route maintenance in areas like Potrero, where bolts are often old and of questionable condition, would be facilitated by this tool. Even in areas with more stable, active maintenance, like Clear Creek, route conditions do deteriorate and present safety issues - or, at the very least, potential to throw a casual day off-course and cost unplanned time/effort.

Thoughts?

Cheers!

I like this idea, especially for tracking fixed hardware. I've never understood why MP has never integrated a bolt database into the system because other sites that serve this function like badbolts.com don't get nearly the traffic as MP. If you could have all that information in one place, it would make things much easier. 

... this place has condition reports?!

They're pretty obvious on 14ers, but somehow I never noticed them here.

eli poss wrote: I like this idea, especially for tracking fixed hardware. I've never understood why MP has never integrated a bolt database into the system because other sites that serve this function like badbolts.com don't get nearly the traffic as MP. If you could have all that information in one place, it would make things much easier. 

It's already on MP. Look at a number of routes in Eldorado Canyon. At the top next to the rating and grade is a hyperlink to "Fixed hardware" that takes you to a page like this: https://www.mountainproject.com/route/hardware/105748786/the-naked-edge.

I recall a thread a while ago where Nick introduced it. Don't think it caught on beyond Eldo and maybe a few other spots.

For what it's worth, I generally find route descriptions regarding fixed gear are pretty good...mostly. And when they're not, there's usually a long string of comments calling the route an X-rated sandbag. But I also think that launching into a route with dubious fixed gear and no clear idea of how you're going to manage the risk if the fixed gear isn't there is kinda dumb and not necessarily the responsibility of a random person on the internet to educate one about, myself included.

Whoa. Thanks for calling that out, Matt.

I recall seeing that feature once upon a time, and being impressed.

But then losing track of it and being very confused at unable to find it again, wondering if it was all a fever-dream... other forum posts seem to indicate a similar confusion

I’m still confused as to how to access that feature, and why its available for some routes and not others. Probably mostly just my unfamiliarity with the admin/moderator side of MP. Will have to explore more in the next few days. (Side note: this site never ceases to inform and inspire...)

Heres the post you allude to:
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/108261716/fixed-hardware-database

Totally agree that safety while climbing is an individual’s responsibility, and not overrelying on fixed hardware or descriptions of fixed hardware is table stakes for climbing responsibly outside.
Though, having some structured system in place to track how things were instantiated and then how they change over time - well isnt that one of the main value-adds of a database?
Admittedly, permanent comments and route descriptions already serve this purpose pretty well... but structuring that tracking either in the existing “fixed hardware” feature or some kind of CR log seems worthwhile as the crags see more and more non-developer traffic, no?

Matt Zia wrote:

It's already on MP. Look at a number of routes in Eldorado Canyon. At the top next to the rating and grade is a hyperlink to "Fixed hardware" that takes you to a page like this: https://www.mountainproject.com/route/hardware/105748786/the-naked-edge.

Okay I see. It appears to me that one can only enter in data if they were the person who submitted the route in the first place. It would be great if there was a function where anybody could post updates on the conditions of the bolts in that database. That would make it easier for people who want to replace bolts to identify which bolts and where that need to be replaced.

Perhaps if this database were more accessible and displayed more obviously on the route pages then it might get used more. 

eli - The bolt database does need to be curated to be an accurate record in the long run. I've seen a broad range of user reports on bolts in Eldo, and the facts about size/type/condition/quantity are all over the map depending on the climber's familiarity with bolts.
The current system has folks monitoring the comments and condition reports for bad bolt mentions using the 'what's new' function filtered by area. Not perfect, but it works. I would like to see a photo with every bad bolt notice to help with tool selection and planning.