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calorie deficits and crashes


JRZane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 90
Tim Lutz wrote: So you are vegan? Seriously, take creatine and B supplement

my idea was to run as vegan as possible for 12 weeks and see how I like the changes compared to the amount of effort.  Honestly, its only difficult when eating out.  So far my cheats have been mostly cheese (pizza once, nachos twice) and one club sandwich with turkey and some bacon. about one total pound of pasta this month. Other than that, ive been pretty strict.


when I was a little more serious about power lifting I was taking protein powder but honestly I didn't notice too much.   I read about B supplements, B12 specifically. would a protein/creatine mix make sense?  also, would you mind explaining a little more your rationale?
JRZane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 90
PosiDave wrote:

Don’t listen to the vegan haters and all if that garbage. B12 supplements (soluble) is a for sure thing you want however. Based on your protein sources, I’d also invest in some BCAA powder as that can help fill plant based proteins and stuff easier and help with recovery time (I didn’t believe this and has noticed a huge difference once I jumped on that).


Sustaining 500 calorie a day deficits is what will cause you to not have the endurance. Try dropping to 250 calories and you will notice a big difference. Your weight lose will be slower, but it will also have less of the negative side effects. 
Also, it isn’t that you are maintaining our power exactly as dropping weight will offset that (unless you are doing weighted hangs/ weights excercises and notice that same. 
Also, tracking with home cooked meals is easy and I would suggest that Atleast for a little bit even if they aren’t exact. You want to have .75-1.25 grams of protein per lean body mass.
Running: what made you pick the 4% incline? If you can i’d try to mix the incline or run at the standard 2% as running continuously on a 4% incline can cause some issues with your joints as you are essentially forcing your body to run at a constant 2% incline. (Variety is better). This isn’t from my personal knowledge but from a friend that is a PT and recommended it to me with my current training 

its an average of 4%.  Its the "cross country" setting on the treadmill.  when its done it gives you a "summary" of the run including average incline.  it changes every 1:10 between 0 and 7-9% depending on the "trail" chosen.

JRZane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 90
Tradiban wrote:

Seriously, sounds like you've gotten to far into your own head about it. Forget all the numbers and just climb for fun.

Wax on, wax off.

Edit: And stop with the calorie deficit crap. Starving yourself is a totally outdated way of losing weight and probably directly causing your problem.

im honeslty never really hungry.  If anything, Ive learned the difference between eating till im full (which I love to do) and eating enough to NOT be hungry.  plus im eating TONS of veggies which again prepared in ways that I like don't feel like its a big sacrifice.  I used to eat half a pizza...imagine how big of a bowl of rice and veggies that same amount of calories is....not going to be hungry easting that.

Plus, im 5'9" and range between 185-205. Sure ive got way more muscle mass than the average male, but  I don't think anyone would look at me and think im starving. Last spring when I was fully healthy and really cranking I was striving for 500/400/300 deadlift/backsquat/bench.  I was nearing the deadlift goal, was backsquating 410, but sadly only benching about 240. im not exactly withering away to dust over here.
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 210

Calories are a unit of energy.  You’re running a deficit and wondering why you’re running out of energy.  Think about that one for a sec...

O · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65
JRZane wrote:

my idea was to run as vegan as possible for 12 weeks and see how I like the changes compared to the amount of effort.  Honestly, its only difficult when eating out.  So far my cheats have been mostly cheese (pizza once, nachos twice) and one club sandwich with turkey and some bacon. about one total pound of pasta this month. Other than that, ive been pretty strict.


when I was a little more serious about power lifting I was taking protein powder but honestly I didn't notice too much.   I read about B supplements, B12 specifically. would a protein/creatine mix make sense?  also, would you mind explaining a little more your rationale?

B12 isn’t readily available in a vegan diet and can lead to a number of issue. B12 also only really absorbs in a soluble form.

Creatine/BCAA’s are beneficial with muscle recovery, fueling muscles, etc. plant based diets when not fully balanced (like any diet) can lead to recovery times and other things not working as well as they could. 
Protein is for obvious reasons. While eating enough protein for your average person is very easy, if you are eating 1500 calories (or whatever deficit) it is pretty hard to obtain a true 1g per lean body mass. There are other ways around taking a protein supplement, but that tend to be the quickest and easiest. Nitrofusion/Plantfusion don’t have the stevia taste and texture of Vega and a lot of other plant based proteins and the protein sources are mixed.
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
JRZane wrote:

im honeslty never really hungry.  If anything, Ive learned the difference between eating till im full (which I love to do) and eating enough to NOT be hungry.  plus im eating TONS of veggies which again prepared in ways that I like don't feel like its a big sacrifice.  I used to eat half a pizza...imagine how big of a bowl of rice and veggies that same amount of calories is....not going to be hungry easting that.

Plus, im 5'9" and range between 185-205. Sure ive got way more muscle mass than the average male, but  I don't think anyone would look at me and think im starving. Last spring when I was fully healthy and really cranking I was striving for 500/400/300 deadlift/backsquat/bench.  I was nearing the deadlift goal, was backsquating 410, but sadly only benching about 240. im not exactly withering away to dust over here.

5'9" and 185+?!? You have way too much muscle mass for climbing. Your training philosophy seems to be based on weight training instead if climbing, they aren't the same thing.

Slim down by upping the cardio big time. Up the calories to cover the deficit. You have to change your basic body mechanics before you will see your climbing improve.
Eric Carlos · · depends · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 40
JRZane wrote:


Plus, im 5'9" and range between 185-205. Sure ive got way more muscle mass than the average male, but  I don't think anyone would look at me and think im starving. Last spring when I was fully healthy and really cranking I was striving for 500/400/300 deadlift/backsquat/bench.  I was nearing the deadlift goal, was backsquating 410, but sadly only benching about 240. im not exactly withering away to dust over here.

Do a skin caliper test, or preferably a dexa or immersion test and when you come back 15% or more BF, you might reassess.  You have plenty of room for losses.

Lee Harris · · Cleveland, TN · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 30
JRZane wrote:

...

Plus, im 5'9" and range between 185-205. Sure ive got way more muscle mass than the average male, but  I don't think anyone would look at me and think im starving. Last spring when I was fully healthy and really cranking I was striving for 500/400/300 deadlift/backsquat/bench.  I was nearing the deadlift goal, was backsquating 410, but sadly only benching about 240. im not exactly withering away to dust over here.

Sounds like we have the same arc of progression. I was in the exact same boat with regard to the 3-4-5 goal, as well as being 5'9 and 185-200. I was over eating to the extreme to maintain that weight and approaching the powerlifting goal.

I'm down to around 170 now through a combination of keto and intermittent fasting. I avoid tracking calories, but shoot for a mild hunger almost constantly.

Hang in there. The worst part is dealing with other people's conception of a healthy body weight and aesthetics. At my current weight my BMI is just barely in the overweight range, but I constantly get comments about how I look starved or unhealthy or that I looked better before. The average adult is a slave to their body, and do not understand that they are, in fact, in control.
JRZane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 90
Eric Carlos wrote:

Do a skin caliper test, or preferably a dexa or immersion test and when you come back 15% or more BF, you might reassess.  You have plenty of room for losses.

I actually did a BodPod at my gym Feb 1 2018.  It won't give me data over changes I had this winter, but at least year over year.  Im almost the exact same weight I was then, precisely one year later.  I hope to finish my 12-week 'experiment' and go back for my second BodPod session (already paid for two)

JRZane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 90
Lee Harris wrote:

Sounds like we have the same arc of progression. I was in the exact same boat with regard to the 3-4-5 goal, as well as being 5'9 and 185-200. I was over eating to the extreme to maintain that weight and approaching the powerlifting goal.

I'm down to around 170 now through a combination of keto and intermittent fasting. I avoid tracking calories, but shoot for a mild hunger almost constantly.

Hang in there. The worst part is dealing with other people's conception of a healthy body weight and aesthetics. At my current weight my BMI is just barely in the overweight range, but I constantly get comments about how I look starved or unhealthy or that I looked better before. The average adult is a slave to their body, and do not understand that they are, in fact, in control.

I don't track calories or nutrition as much as I should.  Im just trying to eat clean, nothing that comes in packaging or plastic.  Try to steam or bake as opposed to fry.  Heavy on veggies and dark grains. basic nutrition stuff.  Yes, I wish my endurance was stronger, but im enjoying the process thus far. and im certainly not hungry on a consistent basis.

My freinds/family say "don't lose too much" but every time I see them they say how great I look.  No one has EVER called me too skinny.  My wife says she doesn't want me too thin but she doesn't complain when I break under 190 and my abs start showing a little either so.....
Jer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 26

Sounds like you're doing a good job following the USDA food pyramid and that's the pinnacle of nutritional science, trust the government. They would never take fabricated studies funded by the corn industry and lie about the dangers of saturated fats causing heart disease.

JRZane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 90
Jer wrote: Sounds like you're doing a good job following the USDA food pyramid and that's the pinnacle of nutritional science, trust the government. They would never take fabricated studies funded by the corn industry and lie about the dangers of saturated fats causing heart disease.

so you HAVE seen What the Health huh?

I don't care what pyramid you're looking at, no one recommends not eating your veggies.
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 210
Bohn Jarritt · · The 405 · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,084

I've developed a new diet I call the "meato-veggie-genic diet"

You eat meat, but only meat from cows, pigs, deer and chickens, and fish (if you like fish). You also eat veggies but only ones that are from plants that grow in dirt.

You don't really pay attention to how much of any one thing and only eat when you're hungry.....that's it!

You'll have energy, strong bones and muscles and you'll sleep like a baby!

Here's some examples....


Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
John Barritt wrote: I've developed a new diet I call the "meato-veggie-genic diet"

You eat meat, but only meat from cows, pigs, deer and chickens, and fish (if you like fish). You also eat veggies but only ones that are from plants that grow in dirt.

You don't really pay attention to how much of any one thing and only eat when you're hungry.....that's it!

You'll have energy, strong bones and muscles and you'll sleep like a baby!

Here's some examples....


Sweet! How much for your meal plans?

Eole ol · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0

google the first law of thermodynamics. the amount of energy you put in is all youre gonna get out i dont give a rats ass what diet youre on.  

CO Climber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0
John Barritt wrote: I've developed a new diet I call the "meato-veggie-genic diet"

............
That looks both healthy and delicious!
Jer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 26
JRZane wrote:

so you HAVE seen What the Health huh?

There are other places to get nutrition info besides Netflix. I cancelled when they started streaming kiddie porn

Daniel Melnyk · · Covina · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 30

Drop the vegan crap

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 210
Jer wrote:

There are other places to get nutrition info besides Netflix. I cancelled when they started streaming kiddie porn

What???!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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