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Dear crag-music lovers, drone pilots, and videographers:


. Mobes · · MDI, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 865

I love how many crags have turned into outdoor gyms yet some of the people going to them still think LNT applies.

Josh Lipko · · Charlotte · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 10
Tapawingo Markey wrote: I read this multiple times and have no clue what you are trying to say. Does bringing climbing gear to a crag have some sort of negative impact to the overall ambience of an area that includes climbing as a permissible use?

You said that if the drones and music weren’t there before the crag was developed then they shouldn’t be there. He asked if that also applies to bolts and trails. What was confusing?

Bart Simpson · · RVA, VA · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 0
Stiles wrote: Have any women posted on this? Are they used to dumbass men and know they cant change ignorant, inconsiderate, selfish behavior from men? Are women ever perpetrators?

What would John Bachar do? John Long? Mark Twight? Stevie Haston? Lynn Hill?

They'd fuck you up for being an ass.  Want change---instigate it by being honest and confrontational.

Lynn Hill would probably tell you to stop being a delicate flower and climb harder.
mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0
. Mobes wrote: I love how many crags have turned into outdoor gyms yet some of the people going to them still think LNT applies.

So we should just trash outdoor crags because there are a lot of people there?

Seems like LNT should apply even more. 
brianszero · · southampton, new jersey · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 5

To put it in simpler terms for the audience of the modern climber..
If you own a house and have neighbors far away you play any kind of music, as loud as you want, act in anyway you want and no ones gonna know or care..
If you live in a apartment with neighbors on all sides and you play your music as loud as you want at all hours, you are a douche!!

the schmuck · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 115
Stiles wrote:
What would John Bachar do? John Long? Mark Twight? Stevie Haston?

Actually, Bachar WAS the dude with the boombox. 

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,187
the schmuck wrote:

Actually, Bachar WAS the dude with the boombox. 

Actually it was Warren Braun

Jack Quarless · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0
the schmuck wrote:

Actually, Bachar WAS the dude with the boombox. 

Actually it was all of the old schoolers. Now we got a bunch of crusty grandmas screaming to get off my lawn while reminiscing about walking up the hill to school both ways back in the day. I think there is a simple solution to ass clowns who demand that their ethics take priorities: whoever acts more like a triggered snowflake should get there way at the crag. Makes sense to me. And sets a good example for the future. I mean, what would the Stone masters want?

the schmuck · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 115

Well aware of the Braun photo. Bachar would hang out at Owens with a boom box on a regular basis. 

Braden Downey · · Bellingham, WA · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 105

I’ve gained some insight on demographics from reading everyone’s posts here: crag music advocates usually climb routes that require less $ and technical experience (<5.12 sport or boulder), have been MP members for <5 years, and do not have college-level writing skills.

In short, we need to target younger, new climbers living under their parents rule.
Side note: one more reason to climb 5.12, ice, mixed, and in the alpine!

Tapawingo Markey · · Reno? · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 75
Josh Lipko wrote:

You said that if the drones and music weren’t there before the crag was developed then they shouldn’t be there. He asked if that also applies to bolts and trails. What was confusing?

"Do bolts cams and ropes.... exist naturally... altering the natural state..... yes because roads, trails, bolts, trundling... is less destructive than ambiance...."

I'm impressed you found that question in this quote. Aside from that, what's even the point?

Example: Two groups of people go to a crag (yes, with a trail, and bolts, and parking area) presumably with climbing gear. Group A racks up and starts climbing. Group B shows up presumably with climbing gear and then starts climbing. Aside from them taking up a route, there's really little adverse impact to the ambiance of the area.

Alternative Scenario: Group A shows up to the same crag, racks up and starts climbing. Yes, there is talking and the occasional sound of clipping a bolt but mainly wind blowing, birds chirping, a more or less "natural" state. Group B gets out of their car, turns on their bluetooth speaker for the hike in. Group A hears a faint, high pitched sound and car door slam shut. The sound grows louder, but no more intelligible due to the crappy little speaker. They arrive, still with their bluetooth speaker playing and begin to rack up and get ready to climb. In the mean time Group A begins to here a buzzing and notices a drone taking off. How can you not say that Group B is making more of an impact on the ambiance of the environment and Group A's experience? It's simply inconsiderate and anyone that says otherwise are simple self absorbed POS's. 
Warriors · · Rock City, GA · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 310
the schmuck wrote: Well aware of the Braun photo. Bachar would hang out at Owens with a boom box on a regular basis. 

True (good times), -- he later graduated to a Walkman (evolved?).  I remember when JB free soloed the Gift at Red Rocks, all of us were agog (except the camera crew), but I hastily walked past pump first pay later to well, congratulate him...


...And ask him what he was listening too.

Boom. JB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5BL4RNFr58
Jack Quarless · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0
Tapawingo Markey wrote:

 It's simply inconsiderate and anyone that says otherwise are simple self absorbed POS's. 

Watch out now, disagree with a self absorbed millennial and you are a POS. 

Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,196
Allen Sanderson wrote:

Actually it was Warren Braun

Pretty sure you're thinking of Ronald Robbins.

Suburban Roadside · · Abovetraffic on Hudson · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 1,914
: 

Actually,  Rolf  Riecht, 

Karma's a Bitch :                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If it Looks like a Duck & it Smells Like a Duck. . .

& YES, it was All of Us
That JB
Jack Quarless · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0

The funny thing for me is the young 30 year olds trying to liken their new ethics to old school traditions. Just admit it. You are not about conservation, ethics, and have zero connection to the idols you attempt to use as justifications for your anger. You want what you want and you want it now. You're the new school. Pooping in bags, wearing $1,000 plastic suits, driving fancy cars and working for the man. You are everything your idols hated. You want order. You want rules. You want everyone to get along and respect your experience. That's not old school. It's not tradition. You are basically asking for fascism and pretending it's tradition. Laughable. 

England · · ? · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 270

chalk(pun intended) me up to not caring anymore. unless someone is endangering my safety it's just not worth spoiling my good time. i IGNORE u.

caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 75
Jack Quarless wrote: The funny thing for me is the young 30 year olds trying to liken their new ethics to old school traditions. Just admit it. You are not about conservation, ethics, and have zero connection to the idols you attempt to use as justifications for your anger. You want what you want and you want it now. You're the new school. Pooping in bags, wearing $1,000 plastic suits, driving fancy cars and working for the man. You are everything your idols hated. You want order. You want rules. You want everyone to get along and respect your experience. That's not old school. It's not tradition. You are basically asking for fascism and pretending it's tradition. Laughable. 

"young 30 year olds"

Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,196
caesar.salad wrote:

"young 30 year olds"

39’s tough, a hole! Give him a break, he’s just a bit cranky nowadays.

caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 75
Colonel Mustard wrote:

39’s tough, a hole! Give him a break, he’s just a bit cranky nowadays.

Dude I just turned 31 and I feel like dirt. I'm pretty cranky too. Don't like dogs, music or drones, but I don't ask that other people enforce those rules for me. I think I'm more of an anarchist at heart than a fascist. The world's already burning, might as well just lean into it.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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