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New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #5


Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 112

Back step that Pac Man's mouth and the next time you move up your left foot too.

John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,084


I don't think I'm going to get this one clean before they take it down. The good news is, I "onsight flashed" a 5.8. That's my second "onsight" of a 5.8 at this gym (top-rope onsight, that's a thing, right?). Either I'm getting stronger, or they're grading softer.

I wonder if any of this will translate to outdoor climbing, when the snow finally clears out. I think it will help at Rumney (sport), maybe not so much for trad.

You'll get it, don't ignore the hold up and left. That gets you back to the right. It will stabilize the lay back then you can push off it while reaching for the hold out right above the lay back.

This type of climb will definitely help outdoors.

Ignore the grade.......
Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60

@dragons. John's right.  Ignore the grade and focus on your feet.  It's kind of obvious where it starts getting hard because you appeared over concerned with your next handhold but completely forget your left foot.  Find a foothold (or two) to,spread your weight and your arms will have to work that much less.

dragons · · MWV, NH · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 666

wendy - "try putting your right foot on hold #11 and turning your right hip in". That is an interesting idea. I will try it. Hopefully I can get a belay on that again next time, so I can try several things while hanging.

Harumpfster Boondoggle - "Back step that Pac Man's mouth and the next time you move up your left foot too".
Here's the moment when my foot is on Pacman's jaw:
https://youtu.be/Cszr0L6rFWc?t=33
The following time, I managed to get my left foot up onto hold #10; I think maybe I did it with a backstep. I'll try to get footage of that (pun!).

John - "don't ignore the hold up and left". I asked a couple of people why that hold was there. Response was that it was a foothold for higher up. I'm not convinced. I did see a guy do the route pretty much ignoring it but then why is it there? I didn't think the route setter put it there for no reason, but if that's a handhold, where are my feet supposed to be while I'm reaching for that thing? Is it my left or right hand on it? I'm having a hard time picturing this.

Fat Dad - "It's kind of obvious where it starts getting hard because you appeared over concerned with your next handhold but completely forget your left foot." Can you expand on that?

Was it here? There are no footholds to the left here.

Or here? Still no left footholds. Might be difficult to see because there are some orange holds that have a similar shade.
Or further down, even?

I was definitely having trouble with my left foot as soon as I started moving up onto Pacman's mouth. It's not easy getting up there. Whenever I tried to turn my left hip in towards the wall, this would cause my shoulders to rotate with my left shoulder towards the wall, which would tend to push me off the tenuous hold on that first rail.

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone! I was planning to give up on this, once I learned it's a 10d. I'll keep trying.
Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175

The last time I saw Bob Gaines he described how much he had always hated crack climbing so he took off for Yosemite and spent an entire summer working on cracks. He learned to love them. (Kind of like what I’ve been attempting with beef liver only it’s not working.   )

But that story did capture my imagination and so I sit in a quandary: how could I put together a summer trip to Yosemite? I’ve never been there. I hear it’s quite a feat to be on line at precisely the right moment to reserve a campsite. And then what...gear, navigation, finding partners.  It’s all a little daunting.

Can I enlist your thoughts on this? I’m guessing there are motels outside the park and probably plenty of guides. It still all sounds...HARD. And dicey.

I have fresh appreciation for the work it has taken to walk into J Tree, get to know the place, get to make some friends and feel at home.  But as everyone has said, new places, different rocks, diversify!  

And it wouldn’t hurt if I could catch this dude climbing Magic Line. (Lonnie Kauk, 5.14)

Tom Hickmann · · Bend, OR · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 35

I have a dumb newb question. I climb a lot of sport routes. On two of my last climbs I came across a lot of loose bolts, one of which was actually a scary situation. I understand the difference between a bolt that is a spinner and needs to be tightened (I carry a nut tool just for that situation), versus a situation where the bolt can't be tightened and is loose and flexing. The latter situation is what I came across and it was the anchors. Both bolts loose and flexing. It prompted me to post a warning on MP for that route, but I also searched on what to do to fix the problem. In other words, who do you contact to fix it? And that made me think how do I as a climber contribute to help maintain these routes? I can't imagine that someone is just maintaining these for free. Anyone know if there is a reputable group that helps direct money to maintain these routes?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Tom Hickmann wrote: I have a dumb newb question. I climb a lot of sport routes. On two of my last climbs I came across a lot of loose bolts, one of which was actually a scary situation. I understand the difference between a bolt that is a spinner and needs to be tightened (I carry a nut tool just for that situation), versus a situation where the bolt can't be tightened and is loose and flexing. The latter situation is what I came across and it was the anchors. Both bolts loose and flexing. It prompted me to post a warning on MP for that route, but I also searched on what to do to fix the problem. In other words, who do you contact to fix it? And that made me think how do I as a climber contribute to help maintain these routes? I can't imagine that someone is just maintaining these for free. Anyone know if there is a reputable group that helps direct money to maintain these routes?

http://safeclimbing.org/

Edit: On their "Replacement" page, they state they following:

Help the ASCA prioritize which routes to rebolt! Send your suggestions to greg@safeclimbing.org. Please include the climbing area, route name, approximate number of bolts that need to be replaced, and the date when you saw the poor anchor. 

Send them an e-mail.
Tom Hickmann · · Bend, OR · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 35
Lori Milas wrote:how could I put together a summer trip to Yosemite? I’ve never been there. I hear it’s quite a feat to be on line at precisely the right moment to reserve a campsite. And then what...gear, navigation, finding partners.  It’s all a little daunting.

Can I enlist your thoughts on this? I’m guessing there are motels outside the park and probably plenty of guides. It still all sounds...HARD. And dicey.
My wife and I started going to Yosemite in the 80's. Not to climb, but to hike and camp back then. We also climbed the cables of half dome. Back then it seemed easy and did not take much planning. There were cabins we could rent in the park, which was awesome. But we always went off season before school got out or after school started. The last time I was there was in summer of 2012. It took a full year of planning for my son and I. Camp sites had to be secured in January, sold out in a day. We also had to get a permit to climb the cables on half dome. My son took a climbing lesson there for a day, and that required no advance notice.

You can roll the dice on camping. There is one office there that will give out cancelations. A line forms early in the morning for each day. We actually met some people who were from Europe and could not find anywhere to stay. We let them share our camp site, and I found others doing the same.

My advice, go off season. It's not as crowded and takes less planning. To climb, I don't have that answer. I have two friends who have climbed there a lot. One of them reserves camp sites a year in advance for April. He then finds other climbers who want to go. I am going this April for my first time to climb. I will be following and we are planning on doing Royal Arches. We will see if the plans all come together.
John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,084
dragons wrote
John - "don't ignore the hold up and left". I asked a couple of people why that hold was there. Response was that it was a foothold for higher up. I'm not convinced. I did see a guy do the route pretty much ignoring it but then why is it there? I didn't think the route setter put it there for no reason, but if that's a handhold, where are my feet supposed to be while I'm reaching for that thing? Is it my left or right hand on it? I'm having a hard time picturing this.

It's there for a reason. It appears to be pretty positive too. Next trip up throw your left on it. I stopped the video and screenshot it. You can see how close it is, it gets a hand up and away from the middle of your body.
It should also work in opposition to the the upper large hold. This will help you get the next foot situated. Pull off the large hold and push off that one as you swing to the right reaching for the hold out and right. I can't tell if your wingspan will let you keep a hand on it until you get the next one or not. I think it will.

Your right foot should become better as you swing right. Once you get the hold to the right (if it's as positive as I think it is) you'll see how you can leave the good left foothold and step into the the upper large hold.

When you do you should be able to lean chest-in to the wall and get a rest there. Chalk up and head out right.

Ratings are for chumps

Edit to add: the side pull above the large holds comes into play after you get the hold out right....and some other stuff above..... ;)
Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175
Tom Hickmann wrote: My wife and I started going to Yosemite in the 80's. Not to climb, but to hike and camp back then. We also climbed the cables of half dome. Back then it seemed easy and did not take much planning. There were cabins we could rent in the park, which was awesome. But we always went off season before school got out or after school started. The last time I was there was in summer of 2012. It took a full year of planning for my son and I. Camp sites had to be secured in January, sold out in a day. We also had to get a permit to climb the cables on half dome. My son took a climbing lesson there for a day, and that required no advance notice.

You can roll the dice on camping. There is one office there that will give out cancelations. A line forms early in the morning for each day. We actually met some people who were from Europe and could not find anywhere to stay. We let them share our camp site, and I found others doing the same.

My advice, go off season. It's not as crowded and takes less planning. To climb, I don't have that answer. I have two friends who have climbed there a lot. One of them reserves camp sites a year in advance for April. He then finds other climbers who want to go. I am going this April for my first time to climb. I will be following and we are planning on doing Royal Arches. We will see if the plans all come together.

Thanks, Tom.  You described exactly what I've heard, and that's about the time I give up planning and quit.  Perhaps there are hotel/motels outside the park to stay in, and I could just drive in for the day, and drive out at night.  There are probably guide services, and this is when I start feeling like a real tourist (and the bank account rapidly dwindles).   I'll keep thinking on it... maybe the lightbulb will go on.  Meanwhile, your trip in April sounds fun!  Take pictures.  Make sure you tell us how it went.    

Dallas R · · Traveling the USA · Joined May 2013 · Points: 181
Tom Hickmann wrote: On two of my last climbs I came across a lot of loose bolts, .., who do you contact to fix it? 

Tom, on MP description for the route that you are looking at about the 5th line down is "Admins".  You can PM these people and they generally know who is doing maintenance in the area. 

If it was Smith Rock you can join the fun of Spring Thing and or contact/make donation at Smith Rock Group.  You could also contact Jim Abloa at Chockstone climbing guides, he is very active in the area and probably knows who's doing what.
John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,084
Lori Milas wrote:

Thanks, Tom.  You described exactly what I've heard, and that's about the time I give up planning and quit.  Perhaps there are hotel/motels outside the park to stay in, and I could just drive in for the day, and drive out at night.  There are probably guide services, and this is when I start feeling like a real tourist (and the bank account rapidly dwindles).   I'll keep thinking on it... maybe the lightbulb will go on.  Meanwhile, your trip in April sounds fun!  Take pictures.  Make sure you tell us how it went.    

You should talk to John Tuttle, you go to the same gym. I bet he would be up for a day or two of climbing in Yosemite with you. 

wendy weiss · · boulder, co · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 10
Tom Hickmann wrote: I have a dumb newb question. I climb a lot of sport routes. On two of my last climbs I came across a lot of loose bolts, one of which was actually a scary situation. I understand the difference between a bolt that is a spinner and needs to be tightened (I carry a nut tool just for that situation), versus a situation where the bolt can't be tightened and is loose and flexing. The latter situation is what I came across and it was the anchors. Both bolts loose and flexing. It prompted me to post a warning on MP for that route, but I also searched on what to do to fix the problem. In other words, who do you contact to fix it? And that made me think how do I as a climber contribute to help maintain these routes? I can't imagine that someone is just maintaining these for free. Anyone know if there is a reputable group that helps direct money to maintain these routes?

Here there's a local group, the Boulder Climbing Community, that takes on projects like this. Is there a similar climbers' group in Bend?

Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175
John Barritt wrote:

You should talk to John Tuttle, you go to the same gym. I bet he would be up for a day or two of climbing in Yosemite with you. 

Does Harumpster = John Tuttle?   You may have just outed John.

I’ve had the certain feeling that Harumpster and I have met at Pipeworks only I didn’t know it.  If I have been conversing with Harumpster at the gym and only he knew—payback’s a bitch   
It’s ok. I know several John’s now and using stealth technology and feminine wiles I will figure this out. 
dragons · · MWV, NH · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 666
John Barritt wrote: It's there for a reason. It appears to be pretty positive too. Next trip up throw your left on it. I stopped the video and screenshot it. You can see how close it is, it gets a hand up and away from the middle of your body.

Super beta John, thank you! I can see that helping.

budman · · Moab,UT · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 10
Lori Milas wrote:

Thanks, Tom.  You described exactly what I've heard, and that's about the time I give up planning and quit.  Perhaps there are hotel/motels outside the park to stay in, and I could just drive in for the day, and drive out at night.  There are probably guide services, and this is when I start feeling like a real tourist (and the bank account rapidly dwindles).   I'll keep thinking on it... maybe the lightbulb will go on.  Meanwhile, your trip in April sounds fun!  Take pictures.  Make sure you tell us how it went.    

Hi Lori,  Your gonna miss one of the rites of passage as a climber not standing in line at Camp 4 and living in the dirt for a week or so.  Plenty of folks hanging out and climbing.  From reading this thread from a far sounds like you need to just climb with capable partners not just guides.  Gain skills of following and cleaning plenty of pitchs and have fun doing so.  I learned plenty of climbing skills by watching my partners and trying to be efficient.  

Used a Guide for 2 days many years ago as I knew no one that climbed.  Learned the basics of anchors and placing gear in the morning and we climbed for a day and a half.  Ever grateful to IME in North Conway for their knowledge.  Fast and light were the 2 things I took away with that experience.

My first Valley trip help mold my out look on my climbing every day after that one.  Just thinking about it brings a smile.  Been back plenty of times since.

Bud, everyone in Moab knows me as Budman   
phylp · · Upland · Joined May 2015 · Points: 622

Lori, google “Indian Flat RV Campground”. It is in El Portal. They have 25 tent camp sites. Closest commercial campground I know of to the Valley. 

John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,084
dragons wrote:

Super beta John, thank you! I can see that helping.

No sweat, it looks like you're about halfway through the crux already...... ;)

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 112

Its always hard to give beta not being there to see how steep something is etc...But, we are saying you should be laying away to the left more to improve the handhold (the further you lean to the left the better it will get). If you can, back step left leg to lean more left and heel hook right foot. The hold out left is for feet only even if it can be reached. You'll be in an "iron cross" (gymnastic term) if you reach from it to the next hold.

The crux is clearly the transition from lay backing to the left to lay backing to the right. Usually best and most efficiently done dynamically with a little "mo". Throw for it while rocking onto your right foot (moving from heel hook to standing on it).
SeƱor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Lori Milas wrote:


Having asked repeatedly “Am I ready to lead? Should I be leading yet?” I have always received the same answer “If you have to ask you’re not ready.”

Who is answering you that way? That's flat out a BULLSHIT answer. It's not rocket science. And there's nothing wrong with having some self-doubt and introspection or fear about it.

I ask myself if I'm ready to lead every single time I lead.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern California
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