Mountain Project Logo

cooling tower project


Frank Niehus · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2018 · Points: 0
Jim Titt wrote:

The minimum distance for that bolt is 50mm and the maximum 210mm and since the OP has said they will be 250mm apart I guess that´s covered.......after the rotting concrete has been tested.....

As for the rest of it:-
The cooling tower is in the Fun Park Meppen (a large motorsports orientated activity park) and thus subject to German law. If the installation is for artistic purposes (circus or similar) it falls under one set of regulations, the standard number I can´t remember but it´s easy enough to look up. Otherwise it´s fun-fair stuff and comes under DIN EN13814 for "flying rides". There is no exemption for private use. For both the standards none of the proposed equipment would pass any of the requirements, knotted tape isn´t really the thing and nor are slackliners quicklinks, line lockers and the rest.
I do a few of these occasionally, the last one was the anchoring points in a sandstone church for the ariel "flying angels" in a Nativity play in Dusseldorf and for individual anchor points it´s tested steel strops to a central ring and equalised with turnbuckles, if possible you just go to a welded steel attatchment plate (in the church we couldn´t).
The cage thingy the TÜV guy is just going to laugh, to work out the required strength would be okay but since it´s made of 8mm thread-all and bamboo it´s going to be fun seeing the calculations, normally it would be welded 2mm wall stainless tube. As the holes in it are quite large you´d also need a certified attatchment point for the safety leash or a safety net below if it´s for artistic use.
Since the fun park is a large commercial operation (off-road experience stuff, full-on car racetrack etc) I´m sure the manager and his insurance guy will take care of it all anyway!

Hi,

it is not used as a "Flying Ride", so i do not have to follow the DIN specifaction. The purpose of the cooling tower project it is not intended for a commercial purpose, there will also also no audience during the test.  It is used to test the flexibility and the scalabality of the base idea, like making the biggest trampoline possible in a nice environment.  Because in a way it is a stunt project, I am the only person who is responsible. I have tested the icosahedron with the force of 800 kg and had no breaks or other problems. An M8 Bar has a working load of 140 kg (1400 kg breaking load) I have 5 bars on each of the three joints, so because of the system angles every threaded bar has to keep nearly 150 kg forces in longitudinal direction if the dynamic forces are 4 kN. I could use 8.8 threaded bars for more security. Anyway, there will 15 of the 30 bars, who have to keep the pressure with the support of the bamboo poles, who have been tested with working load of 100 kg in the middle of the pole without the threaded bar inside. The point of the system is, to make it light weight, the cage only weights 30 Kg. Nevertheless, for the future, i plan to consult an structural engineer.

Thanks for your reply

Frank
Frank Niehus · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2018 · Points: 0
Jim Titt wrote:

They are kinda thin! The ones which blew down in the UK (1965 Ferrybridge) were of similar size and design to the one we are discussing (115m high and 88m dia base and they were 127mm/5" thick and that´s pretty normal (the remaining ones were upgraded to 7").

Hi, the cooling tower has a thickness of 30 cm in the basement. The thickness of the concrete is less in higher altitudes (131 m height). The regulations for cooling towers in germanyy  are the use of at least B35 concrete nowadays. Nevertheless i will test each anchor with the Hilti HAT28.

Thanks for your reply

Frank
Frank Niehus · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2018 · Points: 0

A Little update,

we have finished the project and had no problems with the concrete of the cooling tower. For the upper anchor point in 20 m height we decided to use a steel plate.
Here is a photo of the plate setup and a videolink about the project youtu.be/jGoxwGmDrRA.


Thank you for the given tips.

Many greetings

Frank
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
Frank Niehus wrote: A Little update,

we have finished the project and had no problems with the concrete of the cooling tower. For the upper anchor point in 20 m height we decided to use a steel plate.
Here is a photo of the plate setup and a videolink about the project youtu.be/jGoxwGmDrRA.


Thank you for the given tips.

Many greetings

Frank

The steel plate should have been on the outside, in this configuration it serves no purpose.

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Tradiban wrote:

The steel plate should have been on the outside, in this configuration it serves no purpose.

Hmmm.....

You don´t do much of this kind of engineering do you? That´s almost exactly what I would have built, maybe with a stiffening web horizontally but mostly I wouldn´t bother, just pick up a thicker bit of plate instead as welding costs more than steel. Wouldn´t have bothered with the hangers and dogbones though, "refined" design in 8mm plate or crude in 10mm would be fine.
Corey Day · · Philadelphia · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 5
Frank Niehus wrote: A Little update,

we have finished the project and had no problems with the concrete of the cooling tower. For the upper anchor point in 20 m height we decided to use a steel plate.
Here is a photo of the plate setup and a videolink about the project youtu.be/jGoxwGmDrRA.


Thank you for the given tips.

Many greetings

Frank

Pretty neat setup and interesting video. Thanks for the follow up.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
Jim Titt wrote:

Hmmm.....

You don´t do much of this kind of engineering do you? That´s almost exactly what I would have built, maybe with a stiffening web horizontally but mostly I wouldn´t bother, just pick up a thicker bit of plate instead as welding costs more than steel. Wouldn´t have bothered with the hangers and dogbones though, "refined" design in 8mm plate or crude in 10mm would be fine.

I missed that the connection is on the plate since there's a mess of limp webbing as backup.

So, four 3/8 bolts within 6in of each other with no backing is what is holding this thing? Don't call me when the crete blows out with all four bolts still attached.

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

4 x 10mm SS wedge bolts 60mm embedment, C20/25 concrete = 4 x 10.7kN = 42.8kN working load. The typical failure would be over 64kN and I'd expect to see up to 150kN.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
Jim Titt wrote: 4 x 10mm SS wedge bolts 60mm embedment, C20/25 concrete = 4 x 10.7kN = 42.8kN working load. The typical failure would be over 64kN and I'd expect to see up to 150kN.

Ya, if they were floor anchors.

alpinejason · · Minneapolis · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 176
Jim Titt wrote: 4 x 10mm SS wedge bolts 60mm embedment, C20/25 concrete = 4 x 10.7kN = 42.8kN working load. The typical failure would be over 64kN and I'd expect to see up to 150kN.


I have concrete failure on a 6" by 8" anchor pattern at about 12k (50ish KN) assuming 12" (30cm) concrete that the OP indicated.

Thanks for giving me something to do this afternoon!
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Tradiban wrote:

Ya, if they were floor anchors.

What are you on about? I'd expect to see 25kN+ axial for each of those bolts in  C25 concrete and 35kN+ in something really good. I test maybe 100 a year in concrete to certify the things.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
Jim Titt wrote:

What are you on about? I'd expect to see 25kN+ axial for each of those bolts in  C25 concrete and 35kN+ in something really good. I test maybe 100 a year in concrete to certify the things.

Real world is a lil' different than the lab.

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

Whatever.

Frank Niehus · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2018 · Points: 0
Tradiban wrote:

The steel plate should have been on the outside, in this configuration it serves no purpose.

Hi,

the steel plate setup has worked fine for us. Anyway, on the picture you see two green loops, who are connected with the outside of the cooling tower through a bolt in different concrete sections. I do not think it was really needed, but it was reassuring to have this two backup lines if the system would have failed.

Many greetings

Frank
Frank Niehus · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2018 · Points: 0
Jim Titt wrote:

Hmmm.....

You don´t do much of this kind of engineering do you? That´s almost exactly what I would have built, maybe with a stiffening web horizontally but mostly I wouldn´t bother, just pick up a thicker bit of plate instead as welding costs more than steel. Wouldn´t have bothered with the hangers and dogbones though, "refined" design in 8mm plate or crude in 10mm would be fine.

Hi,

we used a 8 mm steel plate as a base. The "Singing Rock" backup loops are probably unnecessary but we felt a little bit safer with it. Anyway, there are always things you could improve. Thank you very much for the given feedbacks during this project from an expert like you. P.S. I really like your products, especially the "Rod Belay Hanger".

Many greetings

Frank
Frank Niehus · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2018 · Points: 0
Corey Day wrote:

Pretty neat setup and interesting video. Thanks for the follow up.

Thank you for the positive feedback.

Many greetings

Frank
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
Frank Niehus wrote:

Hi,

the steel plate setup has worked fine for us. Anyway, on the picture you see two green loops, who are connected with the outside of the cooling tower through a bolt in different concrete sections. I do not think it was really needed, but it was reassuring to have this two backup lines if the system would have failed.

Many greetings

Frank

I don't doubt ithas worked fine, your project wouldn't produce much force based on the vid.

The point is that a force capable of breaking the hardware would surely break the webbing in quick succession.

If a huge force were able to be produced I contend it would rip the whole unit plate included with a chunk of the wall along with it.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Fixed Hardware: Bolts & Anchors
Post a Reply to "cooling tower project"

Log In to Reply