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Diet, weight loss, body fat and other weight related things


that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 210
JCM wrote:

He is an interesting case study in that way. 

People seem to see me that way allot.


Seb: have you done the full Lattice assessment? I’d curious about your energy systems numbers too. Maybe an undeveloped aerobic capacity (relative to your max strength) has some bearing also?

I haven't gotten a chance for the full assessment just a informal test for the finger strength, i should be doing it in Febuary though as providing things go as planned at work i am soon to be an assessor with Lattice. I am definitely not where i should be with endurance but it's not too bad I'm finding I more lacking in aerobic capacity than anything, my ability to recover even on large jugs is quite poor though this may be down to something else.
I agree with Morgan’s assesment though, that technical and tactical factors are likely the largest problems. 
I have found going on ropes really has immediatly helped with my technique and i'm improving fast but needless to say I have long long way to go. Morgan guess of overgriping is correct but not the reason why, I am an extremely tense climber so I naturally overgrip no matter what i'm doing no matter if it's sport climbing or indoor bouldering tom said something like this "you're climbing v4 like your climbing a v10" by that he doesn't mean i'm flailing about on v3's he means i'm just tensing hard on fucking everything i do.
The good news for the OP is that he can avoid the boring, painful parts of training (hangboard, dieting, etc) for the next several years, and mostly do the fun stuff (travel and climb outside as much as possible, try to learn from more skilled climbers, seek out a wide range of challenges) and his climbing should continue to improve.

It's funny you say that I was a bit crushed by Tom's news because training would be an easy way to get better, just train. Getting out and climbing is far far more difficult for me due to practical limitations.

Nivel Egres · · New York, NY · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 150
that guy named seb wrote: I haven't gotten a chance for the full assessment just a informal test for the finger strength, i should be doing it in Febuary though as providing things go as planned at work i am soon to be an assessor with Lattice. I am definitely not where i should be with endurance but it's not too bad I'm finding I more lacking in aerobic capacity than anything, my ability to recover even on large jugs is quite poor though this may be down to something else.


Out of curiosity, what's your top and "normal" boulder outside? I think you are almost certainly strong enough to be putting down 7Cs or maybe even an occasional 8A, especially in your style.

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 210
Nivel Egres wrote:

Out of curiosity, what's your top and "normal" boulder outside? I think you are almost certainly strong enough to be putting down 7Cs or maybe even an occasional 8A, especially in your style.

I have climbed 7b+ and it wasn't that hard for me I'm hoping to get out on a 8a+ once we have gd conditions and can get out as according to lattice it should be very doable. 

Dana Walters 1 · · Spokane, WA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 225
that guy named seb wrote:

I have climbed 7b+ and it wasn't that hard for me I'm hoping to get out on a 8a+ once we have gd conditions and can get out as according to lattice it should be very doable. 

How many 7B+ boulders?

Karl Walters · · Oakland, CA · Joined May 2017 · Points: 20

According to Lattice- have you actually completed their assessment? It sounds like you just don’t know how to climb and need to rely on strength too much. Until then I don’t think you can compare yourself and strength to anyone, including Ondra especially since you haven’t done the same tests.

blakeherrington · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 1,060
that guy named seb wrote:

I'm pumping out on sustained 7b+ i'm an absolute punter and a shit climber, it stems from 99% of my climbing being bouldering in a gym I'm trying to now correct this with more time on ropes and more trips abroad (which seems to be the only way i can get a fucking partner). I was climbing with a great climber a week or so ago and he reckons after 2 months on rock i'd be climbing 8b that climber was this guy: scarpa.co.uk/scarpa-team/te…  I started this diet before i talked with Tom and you would be correct regarding not needing to loose any weight/gain power as far as roped stuff goes, i've noticed pretty amazing leaps in my bouldering though so i'm going to continue with it, probably more lax now though.

What have you been doing in the 3 years since you joined this website and started a thread about how you could climb 7c+ but couldn't boulder v5?


Perhaps your greatest improvement in climbing accomplishments, at the margin, would come via making yourself someone whom other climbers want to be around and travel or partner up with, and who listens to the feedback from others and implements it.  (Social, not physiological)
Instead you're asking for group validation in your efforts to be in sustained 1100 calorie deficits and lose an additional 12% of your body weight  (to 5'9" and 127lb!), despite already having an extremely high strength/weight ratio and already having paid some personal coaches to study you and tell you that you have a massively high strength/weight ratio but you're simply "shit at climbing".
Detrick Snyder · · Michigan, for now · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 140
That Guy named Seb:
Great work so far, I’d like an update if you’re interested! I would recommend trying to slow the weight loss down now that you've gotten down to a fine weight - you want to play the long game here and stay at a stable healthy weight indefinitely. Too often do people rebound after 6 months because they got too greedy with the weight loss. Old Lady H's comment is spot on. As is Ted Pinson’s: don’t eat crap"". Which, if what you say about your diet is true, you’re already on board with (more on oat bars later).
 
 I have to differ with JSchloem, skik2000 is actually spot on when it comes to protein utilization. Your body is not going to be converting your protein to glycogen (storage), and it probably isn't going to be converting it to glucose (fuel) either.  It will be using that protein to repair and build the damaged muscle unless you go into starvation mode, in which case you have bigger problems.  Aim for 1-1.5g protein/kg body weight if you're in the building mode or regularly exercise for hours daily, shoot for less if you're not training. In any case macros probably don't matter as much as people make them out to - just eat sensibly ;-)
 
 I'm glad Jschloem has found something that works for him, it sounds like a feeding regimen in which glucose and glycogen are replenished by the simple carbs during the day, and then the majority of calories are consumed in one meal (maybe I'm misunderstanding) - eating small meals frequently is one way to stave hunger. Looks like you're doing this, but it may not be serving you the same way.  I would recommend eating vegetables, not grains (and definitely avoid refined grains) for satiety(extra fiber).  Protein and fat in the morning (ie eggs) are what I prefer to keep me not hungry, and I think the scientific evidence for enhancing satiety is more compelling than that of carbs. If your weight loss appears to be stalling, switching away from carb-rich bars may be helpful for you.
 
 That Guy Named Seb, Phylyp, and Ryan Pfleger, your body doesn't actually undergo gluconeogenesis from fat calories (well, it does to a marginal extent, but you get much more energy from the fats, more below), and ketogenesis doesn't produce glucose - it produces ketones which your brain, muscle, and most organs (except your liver for some reason) will eat up for fuel.  Fat (via beta-oxidation) and ketones (vio ketogenesis) are particularly useful for endurance, which is why moderate exercise (not intense, muscle building exercise) is great for weight loss (because the slow twitch muscles that prefer fat will liberate fat to fuel them in a process called lipolysis). You're right that a high protein diet will not put you into ketogenesis, it will just force your body into perpetual gluconeogenesis and will probably feel awful - that's why nobody really liked the Atkin's diet... But, I'm afraid you're mistaken about amino acid storage.  Yes, your muscles are the largest pool of stored calories in your body (unless you're obese), but the circulating pool of amino acids doesn't expand like your glycogen stores and won't increase with more protein consumption - your body will turn that protein into glucose and then glycogen (a terribly inefficient process) which might (no definitive research on this one) even cause harm to your kidneys and other organs. Ryan Pfleger's image of biochemical pathways (which is awesome!, if only it was searchable) actually does not show that fatty acids can be turned to glucose. The glycerol backbone from which fatty acids are liberated right before beta-oxidation does contribute one molecule of glucose per molecule of triglyceride (long ranger and "Can We Convert Fats Into Carbohydrates?" are right here), but its contribution to the TCA cycle is pretty minimal when compared to all the ATP one can get from the three long chain fatty acids that come with it.  
 
 Phylyp, thanks for your input! I will deviate briefly to cover your considerations: "what are essential amino acids and essential fatty acids and why do you need to have them in your diet?" - eat a balanced diet and you'll be fine. Once a healthy baseline is set, for performance optimization the essential amino acid consideration is, I think, more important - you need all your essentials, extra branched-chain aminos (maybe), and all the vitamins and minerals to act as cofactors to make the process run smoothly.  "What are healthy fats vs unhealthy fats?" The questions of my Master's degree... in the context of an insulinogenic (read: high carb) diet, saturated fats are pathogenic, however, they are not damaging on a diet devoid of carbohydrates, and may or may not be bad with a prudent, whole-foods, healthy diet.  I think the source of this confusion is that fatty acids act as metabolic regulators (para- and auto-crine signalling) more so than carbs do, so it's easier to point to fats as the cause of disease, when in reality they aremerely the messengers of the signal that came from the unhealthy diet components (eg. oxidized fats, simple sugars, harmful chemicals and reduced nutrients in processed foods); "why is a basic one-a-day vitamin and mineral supplement not a bad idea?" Actually, probably not necessary if you're eating a balanced, whole-foods diet. That being said, minerals (magnesium and calcium) have been depleted in the soil over the last 50 years, and the industrially processed meat we eat now contains way more omega-6 fatty acids than wild game.   "Why you shouldn't bother to try to eliminate cholesterol from your diet?" I think this on'es pretty well in the public sphere, or is that my biased perspective?
 
 that guy named seb There are studies on the effect of protein consumption during caloric restriction in resistance trained, normal-weight athletes undergoing weight cycling, here's a review of all six of them (try searching pubmed: "caloric restriction" "high protein"). Mettler et al (2010) looks like it would be the most interesting to you, since they compare 1.0 g protein /kg body weight to 2.3 g/kg (15% vs. 35% calories). They conclude that higher protein was superior in preserving lean muscle mass, but the high protein group experienced greater fatigue and lower quality of life – so I might be off with my earlier recommendation. If you don't have access to the full texts, let me know what information you'd like and I'll send it your way ;-)

Also, If you’re using fiber to poop more regularly, go for insoluble fiber.
 
 Everybody has something to contribute here, but what matters is what works for you - play the long game and make small, measurable experiments with yourself and don’t hurt yourself cutting! As this forum has evolved, it seems that the root problem might not have to do with diet and weight. Climb outside and you’ll be a better climber, but in the meantime I might recommend doing some mind-body-meditative practices (individual tai chi lessons, for example) since it looks like your use of your body, not your body itself, may be what's limiting you. I don't have the time right now to dig up references for everything I've said, so I'll just note that I'm an (amateur) nutritional sciences researcher with a Master's in nutrition. Email me if you (or anybody else) would like to talk further: detricksnyder (at) gmail (dot) com.

Cheers!
 
that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 210
blakeherrington wrote:

What have you been doing in the 3 years since you joined this website and started a thread about how you could climb 7c+ but couldn't boulder v5?

I legitimately can't remember climbing 7c+, if i did it's possible I have gotten allot stronger and regressed on a rope.
Perhaps your greatest improvement in climbing accomplishments, at the margin, would come via making yourself someone whom other climbers want to be around and travel or partner up with, and who listens to the feedback from others and implements it.  (Social, not physiological)
I have plenty of climbing friends, they just either boulder or trad climb at moderate level, i'm not in the local high end sport climbing clique.
Instead you're asking for group validation in your efforts to be in sustained 1100 calorie deficits and lose an additional 12% of your body weight  (to 5'9" and 127lb!), despite already having an extremely high strength/weight ratio and already having paid some personal coaches to study you and tell you that you have a massively high strength/weight ratio but you're simply "shit at climbing".

I wasn't asking for validation I was asking when I should stop and more to open a general discussion about weight and diet and how that effects people as climbers. I wasn't aware of my high finger strength to weight ratio until I talked to Tom about it.

I have Tom on facebook so i just tagged him in a video of me doing my mono one armer, being such an anomaly of strength vs grade he was interested enough to watch me climb and give me his verdict, I have said previously his rough conclusion about over gripping and extremely tense body and not enough twisty twisty action but it does basically boil down to being shit at climbing.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 210

When it comes down to it, doesn’t that apply to everyone? :p

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 456

Not to point out the obvious, but finger strength to weight ratio is kind of meaningless if you can't climb at a commensurate enough level to take advantage of it and is likely an indicator your time might be better spent on the sharp end of a rope than worrying about diet and training.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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