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Born Again Noob


David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
Quinn Hatfield wrote:

Thanks Kevin! I’ll give that a shot for sure. Definitely run out of real estate in that Aider Biner.. especially with the 3rd Floater Aider.. 

I sometimes use my second ladder as a "third" floating one in difficult places where I'm finding it hard to get balanced. I clip it to the grab loop of the other ladder. On mine, this means the rungs are at the same height and doesn't add to the mess at the piece, and hence makes it very easy to remove 

kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 521
David Coley wrote:

I sometimes use my second ladder as a "third" floating one in difficult places where I'm finding it hard to get balanced. I clip it to the grab loop of the other ladder. On mine, this means the rungs are at the same height and doesn't add to the mess at the piece, and hence makes it very easy to remove 

I've never found a use for a floating ladder. I use a single ladder for most upward movement. Even when drilling on lead when the long time in the ladder makes it easier with two, I just use my second ladder. I've never understood why a third ladder is needed when you have a second ladder and there's no need for it to be hanging out on the previous piece if you've already moved onto your current piece (and arguably is a bad idea to have your ladder on the previous piece because it sets up a daisy fall instead of a rope fall if the current piece blows)

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
kevin deweese wrote:

I've never found a use for a floating ladder. I use a single ladder for most upward movement. Even when drilling on lead when the long time in the ladder makes it easier with two, I just use my second ladder. I've never understood why a third ladder is needed when you have a second ladder and there's no need for it to be hanging out on the previous piece if you've already moved onto your current piece (and arguably is a bad idea to have your ladder on the previous piece because it sets up a daisy fall instead of a rope fall if the current piece blows)

Continuing on with 2 ladders used as a 3 ladder system, has anyone noticed what happens when one stands in two ladders on steep rock and then bends one knee to place the foot out behind you (with the thigh on the rock) when top stepping? Try it if you haven't, the force on your tummy disappears and one is left in a comfortable bridged position.

Quinn Hatfield · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0
kevin deweese wrote:

I've never found a use for a floating ladder. I use a single ladder for most upward movement. Even when drilling on lead when the long time in the ladder makes it easier with two, I just use my second ladder. I've never understood why a third ladder is needed when you have a second ladder and there's no need for it to be hanging out on the previous piece if you've already moved onto your current piece (and arguably is a bad idea to have your ladder on the previous piece because it sets up a daisy fall instead of a rope fall if the current piece blows)

I get it Kevin- and I set out originally on just 2 Ladders.. but that 2+2 system from the 90’s is still embedded in my old man brain.. 

I used a floating 3rd on the Prow- and while I’m not totally sold on that as a standard system, I did find it nice to be on 2 Ladders for many of the moves.. 
kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 521
David Coley wrote:

Continuing on with 2 ladders used as a 3 ladder system, has anyone noticed what happens when one stands in two ladders on steep rock and then bends one knee to place the foot out behind you (with the thigh on the rock) when top stepping? Try it if you haven't, the force on your tummy disappears and one is left in a comfortable bridged position.

Yup that's called teeing off

kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 521
Quinn Hatfield wrote:

I get it Kevin- and I set out originally on just 2 Ladders.. but that 2+2 system from the 90’s is still embedded in my old man brain.. 

I used a floating 3rd on the Prow- and while I’m not totally sold on that as a standard system, I did find it nice to be on 2 Ladders for many of the moves.. 

I get it, my partner (who is an old dad) uses the floating third as well (in order to get me to shut up and stop making fun of him for using four) 

I've got nothing against standing in two ladders, my question is why not use your second ladder for the second ladder instead of bringing a third?
Quinn Hatfield · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0
kevin deweese wrote:

I get it, my partner (who is an old dad) uses the floating third as well (in order to get me to shut up and stop making fun of him for using four) 

I've got nothing against standing in two ladders, my question is why not use your second ladder for the second ladder instead of bringing a third?

Cause it’s one more Ladder! 

I don’t know... I’ll give your way a shot... or maybe I’m just saying that to get you to stop making fun of me..

In other “Old Dad News”I can’t fucking stand Double Portaledges! Why are there barely any Single Ledges available? And can people actually sleep in an Alpine Double? 
Stay off my lawn- and give me an A5 Single!!! 
Ross Goldberg · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 46
Quinn Hatfield wrote:

 And can people actually sleep in an Alpine Double? 



Hey now, I, for one, got a solid 30 minutes of sleep in at some point

Homer Simpson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 0
kevin deweese wrote:

Yup that's called teeing off

I've read references to that but haven't seen it.  Anybody happen to have a pic or video of the tee-off method?

Quinn Hatfield · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0
kevin deweese wrote:

Yup that's called teeing off

Is that Teeing Off? 

Sounds more like the Hudon rest stance? I thought Teeing off was putting the other foot at 90° across the other foots laces? 
kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 521
Homer Simpson wrote: 

I've read references to that but haven't seen it.  Anybody happen to have a pic or video of the tee-off method?

I made a blog post about it a while ago here (but i'll copy paste the text here so you don't need to click away)

HOW TO “TEE OFF” WHILST AIDING
I (sometimes) tee off** if I need support for reaching the next piece.
** Teeing off is where you will take your upper foot, fold it in front of your aiders to make a figure 4 shape, then trap it in place with the pressure of the adier being cammed into the wall by your lower foot. I’m assuming that doesn’t help with a visual so I’ll try again.
step 1: realize, “crap, I need to move up in my aiders but the angle of the wall is going to make me fall backwards!!!”
step 2: place your lower foot in the highest step of the ladder that you’ll need to accomplish said move.
step 3: using that lower foot, pull the aider back from the wall to give yourself space to place your other leg between the aider and the wall.
step 4: take your higher foot and fold it between the wall and the aiders; it will create a figure 4 shape where your toe is pointing down and your heel pointing up.
step 5: allow the aiders to move back to the wall by ceasing to pull the aiders back from the wall.
– this will have the effect of trapping your higher foot/leg in place between the aider and the wall
step 6. stand up on the lower foot now. You will notice that the camming action of the weight of your body pushing the aider against the wall will work against the higher leg that is trapped.
step 7: you are now teeing off and achieving the same counter-acting forces that are produced by using a fifi to pull down while you top step.
I might create images for this if anyone tells me to.
I believe there's an illustration the the Climbing Big Walls book by Mike Strassman, but i'm not privy to the text until i get home. 
kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 521
Quinn Hatfield wrote:

Is that Teeing Off? 

Sounds more like the Hudon rest stance? I thought Teeing off was putting the other foot at 90° across the other foots laces? 

Yup you're right, 

I misread the full text of his post. That's the rest stance whereas teeing off is the method of stabilizing yourself when above when at the highest point in your ladders on vertical to slightly overhanging terrain. 

Max Rausch · · Portland, OR · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 165

-From Basic Rockcraft. Is this what you’re talking about David?

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
Max Rausch wrote: -From Basic Rockcraft. Is this what you’re talking about David?

I essence yes, but as the guy is now a mile from the wall and his left foot not in an aider, it is likely that the right knee or thigh will be in contact with the wall and only the toe of the left

blueblocr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 0

Hay Quinn, you looking to climb in the valley this month? Or this season?
Cheers!

Quinn Hatfield · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0

I’ve got Wall plans for the last week of May..

I’d like to do something in June but no plans yet 

Quinn Hatfield · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0

So In my first post on this thread I mentioned a mythical gear stash somewhere in NorCal..
I’m getting ready for a trip to Yosemite and I wanted to finally get a look at what I had.. I tried to incorporate it in to a family trip, but in the end I had to just do the Up and Back in about 14hrs.. 12hrs of driving and the rest catching up with my old Big Wall partner.


Craig and I did our last route together in summer 1997.. I didn’t intentionally quit big walls.. but life took me in a different direction.. Craig held on to my crap in his garage for the last 21 years..

I was probably most hopeful that my old A5 Single Portaledge would be functional.. turns out it got lost somewhere along the line.. no big deal. The A5 Haulbag and the A5 Double with a never used 5 season Fly was still there..
the bed is in great condition- the Fly is too- but that thing was always a hassle!

Turned out that the most useful bits are the Hooks (big captains hooks!!) and the pins..
And maybe these:
Quinn Hatfield · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0

Here’s the whole load for anyone that wants to see a 90’s Big Wall Rack!!

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 513
Quinn Hatfield wrote: Here’s the whole load for anyone that wants to see a 90’s Big Wall Rack!!

Lots of iron in there! Hopefully the rack for a lot of trade routes today are half as much iron (or less) and twice as many cams and nuts. of course nailing still has it's place but the clean aid trend has been fairly successful, or at least so I've heard.

kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 521
eli poss wrote:

Lots of iron in there! Hopefully the rack for a lot of trade routes today are half as much iron (or less) and twice as many cams and nuts. of course nailing still has it's place but the clean aid trend has been fairly successful, or at least so I've heard.

There are very few trade routes in the Valley that require nailing at all. The ones that do will have you placing less the 3-4 pins total over the course of the entire route. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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