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Thoughts on this bolt?


Original Post
Nolan Huther · · Burlington, VT · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 577

It doesn't give me the warm-and-fuzzies but I clip it. Found on a high-quality trad climb in a lightly visited area

Tylerpratt · · Litchfield, Connecticut · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 35

It looks better on the outside than it does in the rock!

J W · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,611

It’d be on my list to replace.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

I don't see any threads on the end of the stud. Is it that corroded?

Nolan Huther · · Burlington, VT · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 577
FrankPS wrote: I don't see any threads on the end of the stud. Is it that corroded?

That was my impression. When I first saw this, my initial thought was "this thing isn't worth shit". I have not tested it

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 523

Bad. The hanger doesn't look too bad but the bolt is corroded to shit. If it looks that bad on the outside then the inside must be a ticking time bomb

Alexander Stathis · · Athens, GA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 411

I'd whip on it, but I wouldn't be happy about it. Tough to say what the inside looks like just from the outside, but I'd be willing to bet it's probably not pretty. The bolt and nut are pretty corroded.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

You said it was in a seldom visited area. Does it get clipped 10 times a year and fallen on once every 3 years? Is it a few hours approach? Wilderness?

No question that it is sub par, and you or someone you know ought to do something about it. That's the risk of climbing in seldom visited areas. The logistics of fixing stuff up is usually too great, it's often easier to just clip it and not fall.

F loyd · · Kennewick, WA · Joined Mar 2018 · Points: 406

If its jacked, give it a tug and put a big X on it if its shotty. 

Nolan Huther · · Burlington, VT · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 577
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Does it get clipped 10 times a year and fallen on once every 3 years? 
Those numbers could be a bit optimistic, from my impression. At best they are realistic.

Is it a few hours approach? Wilderness?
About 20 minutes to an hour, depending on familiarity. Wilderness can be pretty wide term. It is lightly traveled because of a backwoods location (for most). Its close enough for me though and a great climb that I'll do regardless of the bolt.

No question that it is sub par, and you or someone you know ought to do something about it. That's the risk of climbing in seldom visited areas. The logistics of fixing stuff up is usually too great, it's often easier to just clip it and not fall.

I was considering before this post being proactive and looking into replacement of the bolt, just figured I'd put a picture of it up since I'm not a bolt expert and curious for more knowledge. In this scenario, if I had the tools and technical knowledge of bolt replacement, then the logistics would be pretty straightforward. I don't mind climbing in seldom visited areas, its part of the fun when treated right. There's a chance I'll be in the area for a couple years so I figured that I could do a bit of crag maintenance/development on the side, tidy up the place a bit and then it'll sit quietly until someone else wants to enjoy some obscurities.

Greg Kuchyt · · Richmond, VT · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 924
FrankPS wrote: I don't see any threads on the end of the stud. Is it that corroded?

I'm 98% confident this is because it's a threaded split-shaft bolt. The threads aren't drawn out like in a wedge bolt, they are just there to provide clamping force to the fixture the bolt is mated with. It was likely installed with the nut close to snugged up. If it's not a split-shaft, then it's a wedge bolt.

If it is a split shaft, it's likely better than it looks but it's possibly dangerously weak. Those bolts can have a fracture introduced when installed that propagates over time. Look at this thread for more info.

I'm pretty sure the question about wilderness is more directly asking about legal distinction that affects whether a motorized tool is allowed or not. I have a feeling I know where this bolt is and I'm pretty sure it's not wilderness.

Regardless of whether it's a split-shaft or a wedge bolt, either can be removed with a typically high likelihood of success given the right tools and patience/experience. You could try contacting the Adriondack Climber's Coalition and see if they can put you in touch with one of the people doing re-bolting.
Greg Kuchyt · · Richmond, VT · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 924

This is a 1/4" split-shaft paired with the same vintage stainless steel SMC hanger, post recall (the logo is oriented vertically). This was pulled from Marshfield Ledge in VT. By comparison the bolt in your photo is a larger diameter, either 5/16" or 3/8".
Nolan Huther · · Burlington, VT · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 577
Greg Kuchyt wrote:

I'm 98% confident this is because it's a threaded split-shaft bolt. The threads aren't drawn out like in a wedge bolt, they are just there to provide clamping force to the fixture the bolt is mated with. It was likely installed with the nut close to snugged up. If it's not a split-shaft, then it's a wedge bolt.

If it is a split shaft, it's likely better than it looks but it's possibly dangerously weak. Those bolts can have a fracture introduced when installed that propagates over time. Look at this thread for more info.

I'm pretty sure the question about wilderness is more directly asking about legal distinction that affects whether a motorized tool is allowed or not. I have a feeling I know where this bolt is and I'm pretty sure it's not wilderness.

Regardless of whether it's a split-shaft or a wedge bolt, either can be removed with a typically high likelihood of success given the right tools and patience/experience. You could try contacting the Adriondack Climber's Coalition and see if they can put you in touch with one of the people doing re-bolting.

Hey there again Greg,

Yeah, you know where it is I'm betting, based on our last conversation earlier this year. I'll poke at the Azure Mountain State Forest UMP about motor usage, though I think its not a problem. This was just something I've been thinking about for a few weeks now, figured I'd finally start asking around... Thanks!
Chase Webb · · Little Rock, AR · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 377

It's probably a 5/16" lok-bolt or similar style bolt. I've replaced a handful in my local area and they seem to vary a lot in strength. Some have seemed super solid and others have snapped when I tried to loosen the nut. You should be able to get it out and reuse the same hole either way though. I would error on the side of caution and replace it.

Timothy Fisher · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0

The original posters bolt is 3/8. There is no washer on it. Likely a rawl drive or a wedge stud. To tell the difference: spray nut with penetrating oil. Listen nut

Chase Webb · · Little Rock, AR · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 377

I think you're right Tim, at second glance the stud in the original picture is larger in comparison to the SMC hanger.

Nolan Huther · · Burlington, VT · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 577

Thanks for all the info. I'll even throw in an extra goodie - what do you all think of THIS bolt?

Bill Kirby · · San Francisco CA · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

 REPLACE!

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 523
Nolan Huther wrote: Thanks for all the info. I'll even throw in an extra goodie - what do you all think of THIS bolt?

bomber dude. I'd factor 2 on that 

Drew Nevius · · Oklahoma · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 1,884

That one looks like a buttonhead, so I’d trust it even less. Both need replaced and falling on them isn’t a good idea

Ryan U. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 45

Looks like an "SMC Death Hanger" I just read about in a climbing book

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Fixed Hardware: Bolts & Anchors
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