Mountain Project Logo

Multidirectional gear?


Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 873

Grandpa Dave, long ranger, and anyone else, I remembered this older thread, which had quite a bit of good information on pendulum falls:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/112165540/pendulum-swings

Very early in our climbing careers, my son and I learning together, there was a fatality in Idaho, a pendulum fall. It was one of my son's earliest SAR missions as a tech team guy. That accident is actually how I first found Mountain Project. So. Yeah. Mom had that possibility to get her head around on this traverse.

But? At the last gear to clean? I paused, thought it all through, reasonably, got calmed down, sussed out where I'd be putting hands and feet, and just did it. Sheesh. 5.4.

I was chatting with my son about this today, and he talked about his trip to Yosemite. That's what he was thinking about, there, on "easy" terrain. Until it kills you.

Dunno why, but we both truly love this thing we do, although we are going somewhat different directions now. He is involved with tech rope rescue, and deep into the geeky joy of serious rigging, and heaps and heaps of training his crews so they can stay on top of it. Me? Conquering 5.4s, that was my first ever, at the grade!

Thanks all for the generosity of your time and experience. Much appreciated by this perpetual beginner who enjoys learning.

Best, Helen

Grandpa Dave · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 5
Old lady H wrote: Grandpa Dave, long ranger, and anyone else, I remembered this older thread, which had quite a bit of good information on pendulum falls:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/112165540/pendulum-swings

Thank you for this link, (and the one embedded in it). It's been ~45 years since I've done any physics math, so the synopsis comments in the links were particularly useful. And timely too, as today I'm going in to the gym early this morning to teach a beginner's climbing and belay class. And no, we won't be touching on this subject, but I will show it to my co-worker and we'll go over it. Thanks, all!

Tim Page · · Bend · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

The anchor should be equalized in the direction of the load, in this case horizontal, and should be extended long enough to be prevent angles 90 degrees or greater. Those rules are always in play. The piece closest to the follower will take the full load of the fall and should be oriented for the load to be directly below it where a fall would finish. The "pendulum" of the leader or follower would likely have little effect on the piece load wise. That said, I like cams. As long as they're not in a position to walk into being overcammed they can handle a lot of movement, a big pivot for instance. A nut or hex or other passive pro would be fine too but require a more bomber keyhole placement to protect against walking out. Cams are pretty universally recommended as the best multi-directional placements.

Patrik · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 30
Old lady H wrote:

https://cdn-uploads.mountainproject.com/forum/73247.jpg

Hopefully this loads the excellent photo from page one!

Here's a slight alternative to the two-rope solution mentioned previously that can be done on the particular route in this picture ("Rosy Crucifixion" in Eldo):

The leader does a traverse, then heads straight up for a while (but not too far). Tie in to the anchor with anything else than the rope. Haul up the rope until tight on the follower. Untie from the lead end of the rope and throw down the lead end to the follower. The follower ties in to the lead end and is now tied in to both ends of the rope. He is now effectively on a two-rope system, but using only a single rope. Of course, this only works if the pitch is shorter than half rope length and it is not too windy. A 60m rope is sufficient for this on the route in the pic. 

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 553
Patrik wrote:

Here's a slight alternative to the two-rope solution mentioned previously that can be done on the particular route in this picture ("Rosy Crucifixion" in Eldo):

The leader does a traverse, then heads straight up for a while (but not too far). Tie in to the anchor with anything else than the rope. Haul up the rope until tight on the follower. Untie from the lead end of the rope and throw down the lead end to the follower. The follower ties in to the lead end and is now tied in to both ends of the rope. He is now effectively on a two-rope system, but using only a single rope. Of course, this only works if the pitch is shorter than half rope length and it is not too windy. A 60m rope is sufficient for this on the route in the pic. 

If the leader was going to use that solution, wouldn't it be easier to tie in the middle of the rope and leave both ends with  the follower? Clip one side to gear, leave the other side free.

Warriors · · Rock City, GA · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 310
wivanoff wrote:

If the leader was going to use that solution, wouldn't it be easier to tie in the middle of the rope and leave both ends with  the follower? Clip one side to gear, leave the other side free.

imo Yes! As someone who has had to get a "2nd" or even "3rd" rope back to partners more times imaginable due to "unforeseen" circumstances I strongly advise to just do something ahead of time, leaving as many ropes/ends as needed, rather than counting on cowboy skills, later...

When considering pendulum falls (and protecting second) I am forever reminded of this doozy. Best to use "forethought" in penjy matters...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AiRzPhXNGY
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Patrik wrote: Untie from the lead end of the rope and throw down the lead end to the follower. <snip> Of course, this only works ... and it is not too windy.
Never, ever do this. It won't work at the worst possible time.
I once saw this result in a rescue of a stranded climber in the Gunks after the party tried 4 dozen times to accomplish this stupid stunt.
Patrik · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 30
wivanoff wrote:

If the leader was going to use that solution, wouldn't it be easier to tie in the middle of the rope and leave both ends with  the follower? Clip one side to gear, leave the other side free.

Or, the leader can tie to both ends and clip as you describe. The follower comes up tied to the middle. This works when you know for sure you will find a belay spot before the leader runs out of rope after 30m (half of a 60).


MarcC wrote: Never, ever do this. It won't work at the worst possible time.
I once saw this result in a rescue of a stranded climber in the Gunks after the party tried 4 dozen times to accomplish this stupid stunt. 

Stranded? I have a rough time picturing how you can get stranded. The leader has the middle of the rope at the upper belay spot (tied to his anchor as he belays) and the follower is tied into the end of the rope. At no point in time is anyone "stranded" without access to the rope. What am I missing?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
Post a Reply to "Multidirectional gear?"

Log In to Reply