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New and experienced climbers over 50, #3


Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Old lady H wrote:
That's a skill set I know needs work, and will make all the difference in how my life plays out going forward.

Knitting is no longer the life I want, on or off the rock.

Best, Helen

I love the comment about knitting no longer being the life you want. That's a good one.

Just want to say that I'm very supportive of learning not to talk yourself OUT of things before you even give it a go. That's another form of attachment. Most people I know who are expert at talking themselves out of of things do so because they're terrified of failure. Or, as you say, of being some kind of imposition on others. It's a way of making yourself small. Which can be a good defense as a child but it's a terrible way to be an adult. I find myself trying to talk myself out of scary things before I even give it a good whack. Best thing I ever do is just not give a shit and give it a go.

Mark Orsag · · Omaha, NE · Joined May 2013 · Points: 760
Señor Arroz wrote:

I love the comment about knitting no longer being the life you want. That's a good one.

Just want to say that I'm very supportive of learning not to talk yourself OUT of things before you even give it a go. That's another form of attachment. Most people I know who are expert at talking themselves out of of things do so because they're terrified of failure. Or, as you say, of being some kind of imposition on others. It's a way of making yourself small. Which can be a good defense as a child but it's a terrible way to be an adult. I find myself trying to talk myself out of scary things before I even give it a good whack. Best thing I ever do is just not give a shit and give it a go.

Generally agree, the one caveat that I would put on that statement concerns safety (which mostly applies only outdoors) and the potential for injury. The latter really needs to be taken into account -- especially by older folks such as ourselves. Injury potential also should be taken into account when working a redpoint/send indoors. Outdoors it is more "go all out" at least for me. The two routes that I have given up on indoors in recent months were an explosively dynamic V4 boulder problem and the contorted awkward route mentioned in my earlier post. Definitely felt "pummeled" after I worked those to the point that I felt an injury was probable if I didn't quit on them. I have an outdoor trip scheduled and didn't want to miss that!

Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175
Carl Schneider wrote: 
Now I can't hardly move my bloody arm and I can't even change gears in my car!!

Stupid Carl is very stupid :-(

Oh I'm so happy to hear from you!  I've been asking "Where's Carl?"  Apparently you need to crash to the earth and break almost everything but your typing fingers to stay in touch.      

No... you're not stupid.  You're a big kid.  You sound wounded but happy.  Thanks for checking in! 

Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175
Mark Orsag wrote:

Generally agree, the one caveat that I would put on that statement concerns safety (which mostly applies only outdoors) and the potential for injury. The latter really needs to be taken into account -- especially by older folks such as ourselves. Injury potential also should be taken into account when working a redpoint/send indoors. Outdoors it is more "go all out" at least for me. The two routes that I have given up on indoors in recent months were an explosively dynamic V4 boulder problem and the contorted awkward route mentioned in my earlier post. Definitely felt "pummeled" after I worked those to the point that I felt an injury was probable if I didn't quit on them. I have an outdoor trip scheduled and didn't want to miss that!



Hey Mark... where are you going on your next trip?

 
This has been an interesting conversation, along with Senor, Tom and others...  it is really teasing out motivation, fear, and ability.  After reading Senor's post last night I thought back on all the times a good coach or guide pushed me to attempt something I absolutely believed was impossible (for me).  And when it worked, I learned a whole new skill.  So many times someone watching from the ground would say "Now stand up on that foot!.." which seemed absurd.  Yet... when I stood, I stuck it, and realized that going forward I could do it again.  In the gym there is a huge difference between a friend cheering and encouraging you to be stupid... and a good climber/partner KNOWING you can make that next move, or route, and being willing to coach you through it.    

Ya'll have mostly moved forward on your own, without all that coaching, but I think the theory is the same.  There's thoughtful, planned courage and fortitude on a climb... and there's recklessness full of ego, that is NOT mindful or detached.   

Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Mark Orsag wrote:

Generally agree, the one caveat that I would put on that statement concerns safety (which mostly applies only outdoors) and the potential for injury. 



Oh, I agree. What I've learned is that that the voice of self-doubt and the voice of real danger sound very different if you listen carefully. I'm really good at pulling the plug in the face of real danger. 

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 773
Lori Milas wrote:

Hey Mark... where are you going on your next trip?

 
This has been an interesting conversation, along with Senor, Tom and others...  it is really teasing out motivation, fear, and ability.  After reading Senor's post last night I thought back on all the times a good coach or guide pushed me to attempt something I absolutely believed was impossible (for me).  And when it worked, I learned a whole new skill.  So many times someone watching from the ground would say "Now stand up on that foot!.." which seemed absurd.  Yet... when I stood, I stuck it, and realized that going forward I could do it again.  In the gym there is a huge difference between a friend cheering and encouraging you to be stupid... and a good climber/partner KNOWING you can make that next move, or route, and being willing to coach you through it.    

Ya'll have mostly moved forward on your own, without all that coaching, but I think the theory is the same.  There's thoughtful, planned courage and fortitude on a climb... and there's recklessness full of ego, that is NOT mindful or detached.   

Yeeesss... But.

There is also "don't give a shit" territory, sorta as Senor mentioned. My biggest climbing day to date, was closing my gym. 38 "pitches" (granted some were only a few feet). The last two pitches were on the hardest part of the lead wall (on easiest holds). Way beyond tired, yet 37 went so well, that I gave 38 a shot. That meant my last move was a full on, four points dyno attempt. With a wonderful, beery, cheering section, close to midnight.

That shouldn't be SOP, of course, but alpinists come close, in a much more measured, thoughtful way, and with a great deal of training for a high stakes game.

There is also doing it anyway, when you know full well you are completely, entirely, utterly out of your element. A whole village of people helped put together my ice climb last winter, including asking on MP about socks and underwear! That day? Came down to complete and total trust in the people I was with. There are times to do exactly as you are told.  There are very few people out there I would do that with, but this thread is an exception. I would trust any one of our crowd. That doesn't mean I wouldn't ask questions, or argue, lol!

It's 22 this morning. Winter is coming, the season of bleakness. Ah well. Maybe I'll take up pole dancing....

Best, Helen
Tim Lutz · · Colo-Rado Springs · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 5
Old lady H wrote:


 Maybe I'll take up pole dancing....

Best, Helen

photos?

Tom Hickmann · · Bend, OR · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 35

Heading to Smith this morning. It was 12 degrees when I got up this morning, so the rock is going to be chilly. Not sure what routes we are doing today, but the discussion here just got me excited to get out again. As for pushing limits... I always ask myself what am I really trying to accomplish and what are the consequences. If its just some minor abrasions and a bruise, I go for it. If its more like a chance of pulling or tearing something I back off. I always tell the young people I go play with, I have nothing to prove to anyone, only to myself that I still can. And I am so incredibly fortunate that I have my health that allows me to go, and incredibly fortunate to live so close to an incredible climbing area. Hope everyone has a great day and gets to climb this weekend.

This was a couple of weeks ago on a route called Friday's Jinx 5.8 trad with my daughter and her friend. Life is good!

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 773
Tim Lutz wrote:

photos?

Maaaybe. Wanna join me? ;-D

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 773
Tom Hickmann wrote: Heading to Smith this morning. It was 12 degrees when I got up this morning, so the rock is going to be chilly. Not sure what routes we are doing today, but the discussion here just got me excited to get out again. As for pushing limits... I always ask myself what am I really trying to accomplish and what are the consequences. If its just some minor abrasions and a bruise, I go for it. If its more like a chance of pulling or tearing something I back off. I always tell the young people I go play with, I have nothing to prove to anyone, only to myself that I still can. And I am so incredibly fortunate that I have my health that allows me to go, and incredibly fortunate to live so close to an incredible climbing area. Hope everyone has a great day and gets to climb this weekend.

This was a couple of weeks ago on a route called Friday's Jinx 5.8 trad with my daughter and her friend. Life is good!

Yeah, I'm jealous, I admit it! I'm actually thinking of driving to a climbing gym this Monday, two hours each way, lol! 

Really, I am happy people are getting out or getting after it, one way or the other. Reminds me to stop whining and just get on with it.

I heard you and my friend bumped into each other! Thanks again for your beta and company. He really liked your recommendation of the lions something route, it's a new favorite. And, I have used your info to build a 'to do' lust list for next time!

Best, Helen
Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175
Tom Hickmann wrote: Heading to Smith this morning. It was 12 degrees when I got up this morning, so the rock is going to be chilly. Not sure what routes we are doing today, but the discussion here just got me excited to get out again. As for pushing limits... I always ask myself what am I really trying to accomplish and what are the consequences. If its just some minor abrasions and a bruise, I go for it. If its more like a chance of pulling or tearing something I back off. I always tell the young people I go play with, I have nothing to prove to anyone, only to myself that I still can. And I am so incredibly fortunate that I have my health that allows me to go, and incredibly fortunate to live so close to an incredible climbing area. Hope everyone has a great day and gets to climb this weekend.

This was a couple of weeks ago on a route called Friday's Jinx 5.8 trad with my daughter and her friend. Life is good!

Just look at that smile.  That says it all!

wendy weiss · · boulder, co · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 10

My gym strategy for intimidating routes: announce to anyone within hearing distance that the route looks too hard, too reachy, and I probably won't be able to get off the ground. Then I can proceed, having made my excuses in advance.  

Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175

“Fortune favors the bold.” seems like an appropriate saying for climbers.  Except for Carl. Carl needs to chill for awhile.   

Tom Hickmann · · Bend, OR · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 35

Great day climbing! 5 pitches and we did not start until 1 this afternoon. The first climb was dirty pinkos a 5.9+ 4 pitch route that was incredible. I led the first and third pitches. The third pitch was a long and intense traverse. Crux moves on the second and fourth pitch, the last one at the top was like a v3 boulder problem.

The traverse route

At the base of pitch 4

The 5th pitch was a 5.9+ route called honey pot. I was thinking of all that everyone posted because the first move required a heel hook that was at the level of my head. I thought there was no way I could do it, but thought I should try. With no expectation of actually pulling it off, I did it. The rest of the route was really incredible, very balancy moves, tiny foot holds (typical Smith nubbing), tiny pockets to get one finger in. Great climb.
Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175

I have experienced some unexpected victories over the last few days. After attending a local ceremony for homeless vets next door to my gym I swung by to hang out in the boulderering room for a few minutes. For the first time some of those routes just flowed and felt intuitive which REALLY surprised me. It was like being in another body.   

Today I spent a few hours at our other gym with a friend working on that damned chimney. In the past one trip up that chimney took 45 minutes and numerous falls and left me in a sweaty heap and sore for days. Today I climbed it twice, stemming and scooching all the way. Still not easy but obviously way better. Before stemming that wide felt like I could injure my groin, today everything was strong and solid.  And I still had enough energy and arm strength to go shoot some pool and win a hard game...and it would have been two but I scratched on the 8 ball on the second. 

I’ve needed to see that progress is still possible because I was worrying that my physical limits were so fixed that at best I could just hold ground.  Taking notes. Keeping a journal. Staying curious. 

Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10

Keep feeding the homeless. It's working for you.

Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175
Señor Arroz wrote: Keep feeding the homeless. It's working for you.

Senor... your words brought a few tears.  I've been refilling myself for the last few years.  Now I feel like I can start giving again.    

John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 577
Old lady H wrote:


Ah well. Maybe I'll take up pole dancing....

In that case, I've got a route for you: Pole Dancer  The top half follows a 20' long tufa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6tAXJ9z9ko&sns=em​​​
Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 175

I have kind of a technical question I'm pondering.  We've talked alot about strength, endurance and power, and combinations thereof in climbing--all of which can increase with work.  But I think there's a fourth something--I just don't know what to call it.  Watching kids boulder, or hop from rock to rock out in J Tree ... or drop from 15 feet in the bouldering room and have resilience back... what is that?  Is it agility?  What is the quality that allows a cat to soft land when it leaps?    
How to not crunch a low back or knee upon impact?  How to take a fall and bounce back.  Is it musculature?  Is it tendon cushion?  Is it anatomical, or another thing that could be improved with targeted exercise?  Because it seems THERE'S the real limit for older climbers... I'd get right to work on this, if I knew what 'this' is.  

wendy weiss · · boulder, co · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 10

If anyone can tell Lori how to bounce like a kid again, I'll get right on it.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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