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New and experienced climbers over 50, #3


Tom Hickmann · · Bend · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 10
Lori Milas wrote: Bob, I know others will be doing the anchor setting etc... I just don't want to be standing with my hands in my pockets.

My experience is to tell others you want to set up the anchor and have them inspect it. When I have done this those with experience are more than willing. If you don't say you want to, they may assume you are not comfortable. Its a great opportunity to learn.

Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 170
jay steinke wrote:  I started climbing at the age of 65, that was four years ago. I have found out that there is a myth to getting older and weaker. I have been gaining strength ever since and I could get a lot stronger if  I worked out harder.  right now I climb 11 B. Inside and out . I specifically train at the gym the climbing muscles and their antagonists. Do hang boarding and forearm work. I have never been in better shape in all my life. I have increased my protein  intake and have noticed a large difference in muscle repair and increase strength. I really love climbing and hope to continue as long as I can. It is a very serious sport for me and I consider all my training to be like an athlete .

Jay, you're singing my song.  I've been increasing my protein for awhile now... and noticed the same thing.  I would also say, the best shape ever.  Would be interested to know your diet. 

Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 170

Whoa!  WHOA!  I just took a few minutes to browse around on MP and see what else is going on.  Never really took much time before, since it seems there is more than enough info to deal with right here.  Is everyone a dick out there?  Rude, unkind, sarcastic, nasty people... male and female... posturing and insulting.  
I can drop an f-bomb without a thought.  But geez.... it's HOSTILE on those threads.  I thought the climbing community was better than that.  

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0
Lori Milas wrote:I thought the climbing community was better than that.  

It generally is...the internet, not so much.

Richard Dower · · Overland Park, KS · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 150

How to tie a trace back bowline.  This is NOT the often referred to double bowline.   This give redundancy to a point, is easy to tie and easy to check.  It also is super easy to untie regardless of how hard you fall.   Only one gym in our town lets us use it though.   We use this in the 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell and untie and retie at each partner switch.  Other teams that use the trace back eight have to tie it on a locking biner and transfer the biner back and forth since it is so hard to untie.   By the end they usually need to cut the knot off.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
Lori Milas wrote: Whoa!  WHOA!  I just took a few minutes to browse around on MP and see what else is going on.  Never really took much time before, since it seems there is more than enough info to deal with right here.  Is everyone a dick out there?  Rude, unkind, sarcastic, nasty people... male and female... posturing and insulting.  
I can drop an f-bomb without a thought.  But geez.... it's HOSTILE on those threads.  I thought the climbing community was better than that.  

The climbing community, generally, is a whole lot better away from the internet than on it.  The separation and anonymity afforded by forums can bring out the worst aspects of human nature.  The goodness and the badness have been a feature since the early days of rec.climbing, and for those who want to carry on a conversation, it will usually be in the presence of at least a little background noise, making a thick skin probably a requirement for participation.

Honestly, as I've said in other places, I've found forum (mis)behavior to be helpful, because it has crystallized for me what type of person I do not want to be.

This particular thread has so far steered clear of the gratuitous nastiness that seems woven into the fabric of such forums generally.  Many of the contributors have reached a state of comfort with themselves---perhaps a byproduct of maturity---that does not require them to continually put others down.  Whether this little island of civility can continue is anyone's guess, but it is, for the time being anyway, a breath of fresh air.
Carl Schneider · · Adelaide, South Australia · Joined Dec 2017 · Points: 0
Lori Milas wrote: Whoa!  WHOA!  I just took a few minutes to browse around on MP and see what else is going on.  Never really took much time before, since it seems there is more than enough info to deal with right here.  Is everyone a dick out there?  Rude, unkind, sarcastic, nasty people... male and female... posturing and insulting.  
I can drop an f-bomb without a thought.  But geez.... it's HOSTILE on those threads.  I thought the climbing community was better than that.  

Yeah I was quite astonished at the vitriol when I came to MP.  It seems that everyone is RATHER eager to label everyone else as a troll.  It almost seems to be the default :-)
Not here though, you peeps are cool...

SeƱor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10

My hunch on civility here vs. the rest of MP is that by virtue of age most of us have accomplished things and/or suffered setbacks that gave us perspective. So, our egos are less involved in climbing and talking about climbing than it sometimes seems to be for a significant fraction of the MP populace. There's a zero sum mentality to a lot of the internet, as if someone else's success had to come out of a bucket of MY success. This forum is particularly refreshing in that way. I don't know about the rest of you but I see your successes and happiness as additive to mine, not taking anything away.

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 768
Lori Milas wrote: Whoa!  WHOA!  I just took a few minutes to browse around on MP and see what else is going on.  Never really took much time before, since it seems there is more than enough info to deal with right here.  Is everyone a dick out there?  Rude, unkind, sarcastic, nasty people... male and female... posturing and insulting.  
I can drop an f-bomb without a thought.  But geez.... it's HOSTILE on those threads.  I thought the climbing community was better than that.  

LOLOL! Sweets? I know you aren't this much of an innocent, sheesh! :-D

So? Four years in, thousands of posts, flamed rather a lot, often deserved, from my first moments on here.

But guess what? Somewhere in the middle of those threads that run wildly off into the ozone? Really often, actual conversations happen. The other big surprise, which should surprise no one? These people really, REALLY care. Climbing is like that. If it matters? Truly matters, not just opinions being tossed around? These people are here in spades.

The other huge (non)surprise? They are all real people. And my friends, now. Including some of the trolliest of the trolls.

I think of it like a really great mom and pop cafe, or neighborhood bar, the sort of place people sit around half the day jawing, where everyone does indeed know your name, and much more besides.

When I climb this weekend? Quite a crowd will be figuratively standing behind me. Including you, ma'am. I am very, very aware of that, and very grateful for my community.

Re: leading in the gym? Stop dithering. Get or borrow a hunk of rope, find an auto belay with a line of bolts. Pick a route (any grade, doesn't even have to be one route) that you can reach the clips. Tie into the "lead" rope, and start climbing and clipping. Work the puppy to perfection. That last, is actually the smoothness you admire, and you are already there, girl, if you are on 10s. Set up your phone, and you can film yourself. I discovered I wiggle my butt just before launching, fairly stupid looking and useless also!

If that line has draws, it also has an anchor. When you have it nailed, have a rope gun climb it and put a rope in the anchor. Grab a second belayer. Tie in to BOTH ropes. One person gives you a lead belay, for real, the other belayer gives you a top rope belay so you can climb lead before​​​​ you are lead certified. Both belayers need to be lead belayers and know what they're doing.

Best to all! Rolling out in the predawn tomorrow. Next time I'm on here, hopefully it will be with a trip report!

Oh, and I haven't forgot about the corned beef recipe. Later!

Best, Helen
Carl Schneider · · Adelaide, South Australia · Joined Dec 2017 · Points: 0
Old lady H wrote:

...Best to all! Rolling out in the predawn tomorrow. Next time I'm on here, hopefully it will be with a trip report!...

Have a great trip.  Be safe and have fun and CRUSH!!

Russ Walling · · www.FishProducts.com · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 3,276

All the head spinning knot talk and anchor jibberish is driving me to drink... So I'll have one and post up!

Seems like there is a bunch of "what I do" stuff so here is mine with a few other thoughts...

Knots:  I tie in with a figure 8 and have never used anything else... it is getting harder and harder to undo the knot after falling on it.  Probably a combo of small rope (9.2 mm usually) and it being fuzzy, and being pumped with old fingers.

Anchor knots:  varies according to the anchor, but normally a clove hitch ensemble, be it on bomber big bolts or a string of crap I placed.  I rarely use slings of any sort in the anchor.

Rap line joining knots:  Usually the fig 8, sometimes a double fishermans, and if it looks like the rope might hang up, the dreaded EDK.  90% of the time I use the fig 8.

Locker biners:  I carry a big one on the belay device and maybe two more on long slings, with a wire gate on the other end, fed through each other to make about a 6" quick draw.  Normally these get clipped at sport anchors as not to wear out the lower-offs.  One locker goes on bolt #1 on top and the other with a locker on bottom on bolt #2... usually NOT locked unless something funky is going on or I can't see the anchor from the base.  I will on occasion use the locker sling thing on a bad fall scenario where if the rope happened to come unclipped during a fall I would die... then I lock it and try not to fall.

So, knots I use etc:  fig 8 to tie in and to join ropes, overhand loop for misc need a loop type things, clove hitch for most anchor set ups.  I do not have or use a cordalette, prussicks, gloves, or other goofy stuff hanging off my harness.  If I am in sport dog mode, which is super rare, I have a leaver biner on the back of my harness... I am yet to use it.  That's it.  My system was the same whether it was on El Cap or goofing off in the Alabama Hills.

As to going from gym/sport to trad/anchors... here is a little tale:  My better half wanted to go climbing in Yosemite... and do some longer routes and maybe even a fake wall... I told her she was too suspect in her leading abilities to pull any of that off.  She had been climbing for better than a decade at this point, had done a fair amount of trad and probably could out lead me on the sport stuff.  So what I told her was that she had to lead every route in "The Trad Guide to Joshua Tree: 60 Favorite Climbs from 5.5 to 5.9" before we could go... and she did, and I followed and critiqued every placement on each lead along with her anchors.  Now there was a sub layer of competency we could both count on if needed.  Never looked back.

As to the smack talk on the internet:  That is why i dislike the "virtual campfire" analogy... if we were ever at an actual campfire, lots of internet guys would be eating dinner through a straw if their keyboard rants were in person.  This thread is amazing in that respect.  Perhaps even unrivaled, especially considering some of the contributors, myself included, that are professional shit talkers on other threads and forums.  A small round of applause for all of us... {{{{{{{{{{golf clap}}}}}}}}}}}}

John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,080

Way to steal my post Russ..........

Squeak · · Perth West OZ · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 21
Lori Milas wrote:  there's a 'climbfest' coming up in J Tree... and I think I'll do it.  3-4 days with a local group out climbing full days, and 1 or 2 days with Bob.  
.  I'm ready to climb...    

Is there a place where i can view up coming events like this. I'm going to be in the USofA for a year  from December and whilst mywife is with me she is not a climber. So Ill effectively be solo, looking for people to climb with. Events like these 'climbfest' would be perfect.  

Squeak · · Perth West OZ · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 21
Lori Milas wrote: Whoa!  WHOA!  I just took a few minutes to browse around on MP and see what else is going on.  Never really took much time before, since it seems there is more than enough info to deal with right here.  Is everyone a dick out there?  Rude, unkind, sarcastic, nasty people... male and female... posturing and insulting.  
I can drop an f-bomb without a thought.  But geez.... it's HOSTILE on those threads.  I thought the climbing community was better than that.  

DO NOT Go over to SuperTopo.

Dallas R · · Traveling the USA · Joined May 2013 · Points: 181
Squeak wrote:

Is there a place where i can view up coming events like this. I'm going to be in the USofA for a year  from December and whilst mywife is with me she is not a climber. So Ill effectively be solo, looking for people to climb with. Events like these 'climbfest' would be perfect.  

We climb with a Kiwi that comes to visit on occasion.  When you come over the pond send us a note.

Daniel Joder · · Barcelona, Spain · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 0

Just turned 60 this year and I have been lurking on this thread off and on but never posted.

Yes, kudos to all for the mature conversation! I especially like rgold’s contributions (on other threads, too) and actually started to cut and paste some of his techniques and suggestions into a word document collection such is his wisdom. Maybe he needs to put together a book? Or does he have one already? I don’t always do things exactly his way, but when he posts, I listen very carefully. (He gets the “gold star”—sic— award in my book!)

Also...re Jay Steinke’s note a few posts back where he says he started climbing at age 65 and is now 69–and getting stronger!—is a HUGE inspiration for me. As we get older I guess it is natural to wory about the ticking clock of time as it grows ever louder. I always wonder how many good years of climbing I have left and apparently I have many (OK, “many” is relative) with a bit of luck! Wish I had stuck to climbing instead of fading out of the scene in the mid-80s (took a near 30-year break, but I’m back!)

On a technique topic...Russ above suggested using the figure-8 to tie two ropes together for that long rappel you have to do. Russ, I assume you mean the “re-threaded figure-8”? If so, that’s fine, just wanted to clarify. I didn’t want folks to confuse that knot with a figure-8 tied just like a EDK but with the extra time around to make an 8. That type of figure-8 apparently can have a much higher tendency to roll than the EDK. (EDK is what I almost always use these days for joining two rappel ropes of similar diameter.) Maybe rgold can chime in here, too!? Sorry if this was brought up earlier—I haven’t read ALL the posts on all three of these threads!
Carry on, all, this is great. Onward to 1,000 posts once again...

Russ Walling · · www.FishProducts.com · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 3,276

Daniel:  yes the rethreaded 8, not an edk 8

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Russ Walling wrote: Daniel:  yes the rethreaded 8, not an edk 8

The Flemish bend.

Lori Milas · · Rocklin, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 170
Russ Walling wrote: All the head spinning knot talk and anchor jibberish is driving me to drink... So I'll have one and post up!

Seems like there is a bunch of "what I do" stuff so here is mine with a few other thoughts...

As to the smack talk on the internet:  That is why i dislike the "virtual campfire" analogy... if we were ever at an actual campfire, lots of internet guys would be eating dinner through a straw if their keyboard rants were in person.  This thread is amazing in that respect.  Perhaps even unrivaled, especially considering some of the contributors, myself included, that are professional shit talkers on other threads and forums.  A small round of applause for all of us... {{{{{{{{{{golf clap}}}}}}}}}}}}

Russ, that's what all this talk has been about... to get you to poke your head in again, hold forth, and start drinking.   

I guess we could designate a smack-talk day when anything goes.  Mine is Tuesday... at my office it's that one day you can swear like a sailor.  Unfortunately, I'm the only one who uses it.  My Tuesday socks say "Fuck this shit!" and I wear them faithfully.  
-----------------

Helen... I hope you have a great time, take pictures, and share everything!  

As for 'innocence'... no, I'm not that innocent.  But innocence and trust are a discipline and a daily choice.  I do believe we are all learning something about 'intention' here... how an inner decision (to climb something great, for instance) transpires to happen.  Gratitude and openness are continuations of that...
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John, this stew's for you!  

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Just a little miracle to share... wonderment about this aging thing:  I went to the gym this morning, hopped on the delt fly machine... set it at the usual setting, and thought maybe the machine was broken. I had to add a lot of weights before it felt anything like a real workout.  I turned around and did the chest press... same thing.  Rolled over to the bicep machine... and had to double the weight on that.  It's been awhile since I actually used any of the weight machines there... I guess a long while! 

I've been going to the gym a long  time, but have just became burnt out with it this last year, and have been considering turning in my membership. But so interesting to see how much strength and agility I've gained from climbing.  So I wonder whether to double down on strength training, at the gym, or let nature do its work through climbing.  The good news is we do improve, get stronger, gain muscle... and balance... it DOES happen.      Measurably so. 
---------------------------

Jimmy Chin posted something this morning about voting... and talked a little smack about most voters being over 65 and sort of clueless.  I took exception to that.  I hope this group, at least, puts the lie to ageism, and that we do get out and vote, and we DO know how to research current events and be leaders and inspiration to younger people.  Of all the topics I am passionate about, I put the health of this planet at the top of the list.  Jimmy's photos continually remind me of what's at stake...

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Question... this is a short wall at JTree.. EBGBs ... IF there were no bolts on the face, how would one lead this?  Is it just a solo all the way up?  I look at this and just say... whoa!  

 
Finally... (obviously random thoughts all over the place)...  I am still thinking about the 10d stemming route I couldn't finish at the gym.  Amazing how some climbs, indoors and out, live with you!  (I'm still reliving that edging/traversing climb ... so ready to do more of that.)  

I'm going to give the stemming climb a go again this weekend if I can find a partner with patience.  Ryan let me climb that route, flounder, hang, examine, hang, and try again... for a long time.  I twisted every way I could think of, and finally gave up. When I came down Ryan said "Lori... here's a clue.  It doesn't have to be right hand, left hand, right foot, left foot over and over.  It might be BOTH feet on one wall, both hands on the other wall... "

I said "Ryan... .you could have told me that BEFORE I went up there and wore myself out!".  He laughed and said, sometimes you have to go up, experience it for yourself, try everything, and then a little coaching can help.  I appreciate mentoring like that... it is a playground after all, one to learn and grow in.

Everyone have a great day. 
Jeffrey Constine · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 563
Keep climbing
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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