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hammer ? stainless steel ?

Hunter Deere · · Colorado · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 50

Stainless steel will always be softer than other steel, so not as easy to pound.

Introducing Impurities? One can argue drilling into rock is "introducing impurities". Same thing with adding cocaine to your chalk bag. 

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
hunter konchan wrote: Stainless steel will always be softer than other steel, so not as easy to pound.

Introducing Impurities? One can argue drilling into rock is "introducing impurities". Same thing with adding cocaine to your chalk bag. 

?

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,658
hunter konchan wrote: Stainless steel will always be softer than other steel, so not as easy to pound.

Introducing Impurities? One can argue drilling into rock is "introducing impurities". Same thing with adding cocaine to your chalk bag. 

Unfortunately, it looks like you don't understand what we are talking about at all.  Introducing IRON impurities onto a damaged surface of the bolt is the issue.  Stainless steel gets it's "stainless" properties from a passive oxide layer on the surface of the metal.  This passive layer is incredibly thin and easy to damage.  If you do damage the oxide layer the stainless will reform this protective layer as long as there is oxygen present in the air around it, but if you damage the layer while also leaving behind some iron in the damaged location (i.e. hitting the bolt with a non-stainless hammer) the iron that is deposited on the damaged spot will keep oxygen from getting to the stainless steel to re-passivate it and will also begin to rust.  This is the exact recipe for causing stainless steel to rust which negates the whole reason for spending the extra cash on stainless in the first place. 

Dan Merrick · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 30

The Black Diamond Yosemite Hammer and the Omega Pacific Wall Hammer are both made from stainless steel. They use 17-4 which is a precipitation hardening stainless steel. 17-4 is a low-grade SS, which they probably use to keep costs within reason. 17-4 is mostly made from iron and probably won't help if iron contamination is a real problem. It can be hardened but cannot, in my opinion, be made hard enough to be a good drilling hammer. I made a few hammers (DAMMERR) out of it but wasn't impressed enough to make more. There are stainless steels that can be made very hard (the SS knives in your kitchen for example) but they aren't practical for hammers.

If you use a power drill and only use your hammer for pounding in bolts, anything will do. You could use a rock.

I did help a guy make a hammer out of 304 SS bar stock for knocking in bolts but I haven't heard how he liked it. Too soft for anything but knocking in bolts I would think.

17-4 SS is a low carbon steel with roughly 16% chromium, 4% nickel and 4% copper. It is about 75% iron.

4140 chrome-molly is a medium carbon steel with about 1% chromium and 0.2% molybdenum. It is about 97% iron.

To avoid contamination, I think the easiest thing to do would be to carry a piece of plastic to hold between the hammer and the bolt. Cut a chunk out of your wife's nylon cutting board and drill a hole in it for a carry string.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, UT · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 22,122
Dan Merrick wrote: To avoid contamination, I think the easiest thing to do would be to carry a piece of plastic to hold between the hammer and the bolt. Cut a chunk out of your wife's nylon cutting board and drill a hole in it for a carry string.

I've heard of folks cutting up a tennis ball...that might work?

Cheers!
Dan Merrick · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 30

Hi Brian, I haven't heard from you in ages.

For comparison, 304 stainless steel is about 66% iron. I don't know if contamination corrosion beyond staining is a real problem with stainless steel or titanium but it would seem to me that the best method of prevention would be to use a hammer of the same alloy or use something nonmetallic. What I have read indicates that titanium corrosion is sped up by iron contamination because embedded iron interrupts the titanium passivation layer and completes an electrical pathway for galvanic corrosion.

Roy Suggett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 8,998

So...would a chromoly steel hammer improve anything?

https://www.camp-usa.com/outdoor/product/pitons/brenta-piton-hammer/

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

No, the 41 series steels usually have less than 1% chrome and rust. Stainless hammers are readily available or converting steel ones easy so the matter is kinda irrelevant anyway

Dave Curry · · Warwick, RI · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 20

How about a titanium hammer?
 I've got a Stiletto titanium for framing. A bit pricey but its already in the tool box.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, UT · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 22,122
Dan Merrick wrote: Hi Brian, I haven't heard from you in ages.

Hey!  Still kickin'...cheers!

From a couple weeks ago here, local climb that had its older bolts replaced by glue ins:


I'll have to check (magnet) but my guess is these are plated.  Whole route from anchor bolts to lead bolts were like this.  Fugly.
mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
Brian in SLC wrote:

Hey!  Still kickin'...cheers!

From a couple weeks ago here, local climb that had its older bolts replaced by glue ins:


I'll have to check (magnet) but my guess is these are plated.  Whole route from anchor bolts to lead bolts were like this.  Fugly.

Those look like Waves. Supposed to be 316. I’ve seen posts on here with similar issues. Either people are using really crappy hammers or something is off with the metal itself. That seems like an awful lot of surface contamination. 

C Williams · · Sketchy, Blackvanistan · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 1,728
mattm wrote:

Those look like Waves. Supposed to be 316. I’ve seen posts on here with similar issues. Either people are using really crappy hammers or something is off with the metal itself. That seems like an awful lot of surface contamination. 

Waves are 316L. I was curious a while back an d had a buddy run one through his company's XRF machine. Came in at a nice 17.6% Cr and 13.1% Ni, right in the correct range for that grade. That corrosion is from irom deposited on the surface, It looks as though someone hammered the bolt in with a steel hammer. Watched a guy use a framing hammer on some wave bolts last summer. It's wet up here in Alaska, and like clockwork the bolt was pretty ugly at the hammer contact point after 3 weeks.

Pretty sloppy glue job on that bolt as well.
Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,658
Brian in SLC wrote:

Hey!  Still kickin'...cheers!

From a couple weeks ago here, local climb that had its older bolts replaced by glue ins:


I'll have to check (magnet) but my guess is these are plated.  Whole route from anchor bolts to lead bolts were like this.  Fugly.

Nope, those are definitely stainless.  This is exactly what this thread is talking about, if you use a non-stainless hammer to put the bolts in this is what they will end up looking like.

jonathan knight · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 265

Hi Brian, thanks for the pic. Let me know the route, and I'll see to it that the corrosion is cleaned up. At least the sloppy glue job is a good color match, jeez. 

John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 392
Dave Curry wrote: How about a titanium hammer?
 I've got a Stiletto titanium for framing. A bit pricey but its already in the tool box.
Wow, I didn't know a Ti hammer existed.   Usually it's the other way 'round: steel hammer hitting Ti bolts.   Since a stainless hammer is okay for hitting Ti bolts, one would expect it's okay the other way.
John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 392
jonathan knight wrote: Hi Brian, thanks for the pic. Let me know the route, and I'll see to it that the corrosion is cleaned up. At least the sloppy glue job is a good color match, jeez. 

Yeah, the glue work is bad.   How do you plan to clean up the corrosion without replacing the bolts?  

Cherokee Nunes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 0

First off, if you don't have a hammer you can't be a man. How can you be a man if you don't have a hammer?!

Now that that's out of the way, strictly based on my own experience, ear plugs are a good idea when weilding a stainless steel hammer. The one's I used rang like bells and not softly either. That attribute was a complete turnoff, man. And if you're into smashing hangers and shit, well the tone of your hammer could be admissible in court, like a signature.

Sean Cobourn · · Gramling, SC · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 3,557

who needs a hammer?  Rock works fine:

jonathan knight · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 265

Open to ideas, but I'd try a brass brush then oxalic acid (bar keepers friend). Hopefully, they don't need to be removed, but we could do that too if necessary.

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
jonathan knight wrote: Open to ideas, but I'd try a brass brush then oxalic acid (bar keepers friend). Hopefully, they don't need to be removed, but we could do that too if necessary.

Bar Keepers is great and cleans most things up.  I've done this on nasty hangers and re-used.  For glue ins I've been told carrying a damp scotch brite pad in a ziplock with Bar Keepers works well.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Fixed Hardware: Bolts & Anchors
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