Mountain Project Logo

Where should I apply as a teaching faculty to climb long term?

Original Post
Byron Hempel · · Tucson · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 85

Hey all!  I'm about to graduate from the University of Arizona with a doctorate in chemical and environmental engineering (focusing on engineering education).  I'd like to start applying to colleges as a teaching faculty in the near future - but only want to apply to colleges that have good climbing nearby.  I've got a few of the good locations down - Tucson, AZ (UofA), Lexington, KY (UK), SLC, (UofU) and Las Vegas (UNLV).  Any other suggestions out there?  I'd like to split time between teaching and climbing!

Ryan SD · · Rapid City, SD / Reno, NV · Joined May 2015 · Points: 0

UNR. You got plenty of good climbing close and a ton of options within a short trips distance.

MP · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 2

does the location really matter that much given your desired profession? If you are purely teaching you'll be getting winter break+ spring break + summers off... My guess is that you'll be more happy at a good institution with okay climbing than a bad institution with great climbing.... especially if, as you get older, your passion for climbing wanes at all. 

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 148

You'll have summers/holidays off, pick a good town to live in with a gym among the offers you get.

Eric D · · Gnarnia · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 235

Come to Flagstaff and work for NAU.  We have excellent outdoor climbing.

Roy Suggett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 8,821

U of U

Carolina · · Front Range NC · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 20

Look into university of Wyoming.  

Deirdre · · Pocatello, ID · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 21

I hate to burst your bubble - but you are probably not going to as much time to climb as you think. Given the research and publication requirements, those summer and winter breaks get eaten up pretty quickly. Things may die down after you get tenure, but that takes a while. I'll put in a plug for Idaho State University if applicable departments are hiring. Pocatello is a perfect spot. 45 minutes from Massacre Rocks, under 2 hours to Castle Rocks and City of Rocks. The Tetons aren't far away/ However, the nearest Target is 50 miles to the north and the nearest Trader Joe's and Whole Foods are 2 1/2 hours in Salt Lake.

amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20

Some of the universities you are considering are not teaching colleges. Research schools will definitely have interest in you as an adjunct, lecturer/instructor, but converting these positions into something more permanent may be challenging. Look for smaller private colleges, they usually are more interested in teaching than research.

For example, UK in Lexington is, most definitely, not a teaching school, while Transylvania University is.

Dave Bn · · Boise, ID · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10

I definitely second looking at smaller 4-year schools if teaching will be your focus. Here in Boise, non TT adjunct get $3k per class per semester, it wasn't much more at CU in Boulder when I was there. Given lecturing, office hours, grading, and admin, that's a hell of a lot of work for $3-4k.

Obviously, you're interested in teaching since it's a focus of your PhD, but waiting tables will have better earning potential and greater freedom.

I say this as a fellow PhD grad, ie no judgement, just awareness of how little PhDs (especially newly graduated) are valued in public sector education or research. A chemgineering PhD in the private sector, however...

Matt Seefeldt · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2003 · Points: 5

Check out Colorado of School of Mines and CU-Boulder.  Both top-20 ChemE schools with climbing 15-20 minutes away.  I have a colleague who is an Instructor in ChemE and he has plenty of time to do really cool trips in the summer during the time off (and sufficient pay).

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

As a general rule, "small teaching colleges" expect you to do research and publish in your field of expertise (which can be education), and since teaching loads are relatively high, you will have to use some of that "disposable" time for research if you want to keep your job.  You will also be expected to contribute to department and college life, what is called "service," by giving time to various committees.  And this is the way it should be; the colleges are interested in people who are dedicated to their students and the institution, not to furthering personal climbing goals.

Some of the bigger universities have a two-tier faculty structure that  includes "teaching faculty," who have higher teaching loads and are expected to excel in the classroom, and "research faculty," who have lower teaching loads and are expected to publish and get grants.  Such an institution might be a better fit than a "small teaching school."

If you are going to take a "teaching" position, your student evaluations will have an important influence on your career.  So, for example, if you have a bunch of exams to grade, you better not blow that off for a weekend of climbing.

I could mention my institution but won't, because honestly from the point of view of a hiring committee we wouldn't want someone who is starting off with a major priority that contributes nothing to the institution.  This is not to say you can't be an academic and have a climbing career; I managed that for 50 years as have many others.  But if you think, as some people have suggested, that you have summers, weekends, and vacations free, then you haven't understood the nature of the enterprise and a moment of reckoning is coming.

mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0

I like how this guy has gotten an education in the field that he wants to pursue and people are lecturing him on what to expect. Is it too hard to assume that he knows he’ll be working a lot, but maybe he wants to be close to climbing to make it easier when he can get out? 

rockhard · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 75
rgold wrote: As a general rule, "small teaching colleges" expect you to do research and publish in your field of expertise (which can be education), and since teaching loads are relatively high, you will have to use some of that "disposable" time for research if you want to keep your job.  You will also be expected to contribute to department and college life, what is called "service," by giving time to various committees.  And this is the way it should be; the colleges are interested in people who are dedicated to their students and the institution, not to furthering personal climbing goals.

Some of the bigger universities have a two-tier faculty structure that  includes "teaching faculty," who have higher teaching loads and are expected to excel in the classroom, and "research faculty," who have lower teaching loads and are expected to publish and get grants.  Such an institution might be a better fit than a "small teaching school."

If you are going to take a "teaching" position, your student evaluations will have an important influence on your career.  So, for example, if you have a bunch of exams to grade, you better not blow that off for a weekend of climbing.

I could mention my institution but won't, because honestly from the point of view of a hiring committee we wouldn't want someone who is starting off with a major priority that contributes nothing to the institution.  This is not to say you can't be an academic and have a climbing career; I managed that for 50 years as have many others.  But if you think, as some people have suggested, that you have summers, weekends, and vacations free, then you haven't understood the nature of the enterprise and a moment of reckoning is coming.

Nice buzz kill. Unfortunately not every person who wants to teach is so enamored with teaching that they are willing live anywhere. Ya go take a position in Florida...your career will be worth it

Tradgic Yogurt · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 55

No comment on location. Just a pointer to Chad Orzel, a physicist and blogger from a small school in NY. He's been pretty open about how, until you have tenure, you're pretty much not doing anything except teaching or research, and that's *at* one of these magical teaching schools where research is not as demanding as, say, Stanford. Many people have corroborated his accounts, but bon chance!

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
mediocre wrote: I like how this guy has gotten an education in the field that he wants to pursue and people are lecturing him on what to expect. Is it too hard to assume that he knows he’ll be working a lot, but maybe he wants to be close to climbing to make it easier when he can get out? 

There is a tremendous amount of variation in how PhD programs prepare their students for the realities of the profession, so a bit of reality-grounding can't possibly be a bad idea.  If he already knows all this, no harm is done.  In any case, my comments were aimed not only at the OP, but at some of the commenters who might be under faulty illusions.

Peter Beal · · Boulder Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,825
rgold wrote: As a general rule, "small teaching colleges" expect you to do research and publish in your field of expertise (which can be education), and since teaching loads are relatively high, you will have to use some of that "disposable" time for research if you want to keep your job.  You will also be expected to contribute to department and college life, what is called "service," by giving time to various committees.  And this is the way it should be; the colleges are interested in people who are dedicated to their students and the institution, not to furthering personal climbing goals.

Some of the bigger universities have a two-tier faculty structure that  includes "teaching faculty," who have higher teaching loads and are expected to excel in the classroom, and "research faculty," who have lower teaching loads and are expected to publish and get grants.  Such an institution might be a better fit than a "small teaching school."

If you are going to take a "teaching" position, your student evaluations will have an important influence on your career.  So, for example, if you have a bunch of exams to grade, you better not blow that off for a weekend of climbing.

I could mention my institution but won't, because honestly from the point of view of a hiring committee we wouldn't want someone who is starting off with a major priority that contributes nothing to the institution.  This is not to say you can't be an academic and have a climbing career; I managed that for 50 years as have many others.  But if you think, as some people have suggested, that you have summers, weekends, and vacations free, then you haven't understood the nature of the enterprise and a moment of reckoning is coming.

rgold is 100% correct. Not to be paranoid, but I would consider deleting this post if you (Byron) are serious about trying to get a FT job in academia. You would definitely not want a hiring committee to see this. Instead of posting on MP, I would talk to advisors and FT faculty in the field about the realities of the academic job market these days. Basically you will be getting a FT job where you can, not where you want, unless you are very very lucky. Yes you can teach PT but this has no guarantee of leading to a FT position and in fact will hamper or eliminate your likelihood of getting a position beyond a 2-year institution.

Andrew Rice · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 11

New Mexico has great need for Phds in Chemical Engineering plus great climbing. And zero pressure to publish.

amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20

BTW - not sure how much you know about #academialife, but the current business model calls for curtailing tenured positions.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
Señor Arroz wrote: New Mexico has great need for Phds in Chemical Engineering plus great climbing. And zero pressure to publish.

Haha!  Meanwhile, as far as I can tell from their websites, neither University of New Mexico nor New Mexico State University have any tenure-track engineering jobs available.

mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0
rgold wrote:

There is a tremendous amount of variation in how PhD programs prepare their students for the realities of the profession, so a bit of reality-grounding can't possibly be a bad idea.  If he already knows all this, no harm is done.  In any case, my comments were aimed not only at the OP, but at some of the commenters who might be under faulty illusions.

You're totally right, and it's obviously your responsibility to do said reality grounding. The only harm done is that you come of sounding condescending and treating the OP like an infant. To be clear though I wasn't specifically referring to you but other comments as well. Why can't we just cut the guy a break and suggest Lower Columbia College in Longview, WA and assume he's done his homework?

Funny thing is, I was first annoyed by the thinly veiled excuse for another "where should I move" thread. Unfortunately I couldn't resist the click bait.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
Post a Reply to "Where should I apply as a teaching faculty to c…"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.