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Backing up your Figure 8 Follow Through tie-in


DrRockso · · Red River Gorge, KY · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 356

A vestige of the days of thicker and stiffer ropes which could be prone to becoming untied. With today's thinner, more supple ropes it is unnecessary. 

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,800
Northeast Alpine Start wrote:

Despite MP readers seeming to be in the know I'm surprised at how many outdoor climbers still back their knots up... probably been spending to much time at Rumney this summer ;)

And you see this as a problem??

Northeast Alpine Start · · Conway, New Hampshire · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 122
Gunkiemike wrote:

And you see this as a problem??

I see it as an in-efficiency I guess. I've also been teaching some "gym-to-crag" type clinics lately and have noticed a fair amount of second-guessing when letting participants know that a "back-up" to a properly tied 8 is really not needed. For some they are hard-wired from their previous training/instruction to believe that not tying a back-up = dangerous. I would like to contribute to the amount of people who have tried to dispel that belief hence the motivation for both polling and posting. I feel that attention to details is finite, and we shouldn't waste it on redundancies that don't truly make us safer.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,800
Northeast Alpine Start wrote:

I see it as an in-efficiency I guess. I've also been teaching some "gym-to-crag" type clinics lately and have noticed a fair amount of second-guessing when letting participants know that a "back-up" to a properly tied 8 is really not needed. For some they are hard-wired from their previous training/instruction to believe that not tying a back-up = dangerous. I would like to contribute to the amount of people who have tried to dispel that belief hence the motivation for both polling and posting. I feel that attention to details is finite, and we shouldn't waste it on redundancies that don't truly make us safer.

I get where you're coming from. But the newbies' ability to absorb new info is also finite. So if you were to simply pass over this issue with, "Sure, you can tie the follow-up, but it's really not needed" and let it go at that, then there's that many more brain cells available to devote to learning rappel set-up et al. If you make a big deal over it, one day one of your pupils will get up in the face of the gym-master and say "So-and-so told me I don't have to do it!" That sounds ludicrous, I know, but newbies with a little knowledge sometimes become the WGE (World's Greatest Expert), as we see on the internet so often.

Cabot Steward · · SALT LAKE CITY · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 2

Yosemite tuck is life.

Chalk in the Wind · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 3
Northeast Alpine Start wrote:

Seems many tuck the tail improperly though... to maintain full strength you must wrap around the rope and tuck into the lower half of the knot. Despite MP readers seeming to be in the know I'm surprised at how many outdoor climbers still back their knots up... probably been spending to much time at Rumney this summer ;)

Anyways blogged about it here and included video of the correct way to tie the "Yosemite Finish"

https://northeastalpinestart.com/2018/08/09/do-you-need-to-back-up-your-tie-in-knot/

So you already knew the answer and were just trolling. 

And it wasn't even a good troll. You just shat on yourself for the virtual equivalent of a mouse turd.

Well, enjoy the tasty morsel.
Adam J. Clark · · Mill Creek, WA · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 110
Northeast Alpine Start wrote:

Seems many tuck the tail improperly though... to maintain full strength you must wrap around the rope and tuck into the lower half of the knot. Despite MP readers seeming to be in the know I'm surprised at how many outdoor climbers still back their knots up... probably been spending to much time at Rumney this summer ;)

Anyways blogged about it here and included video of the correct way to tie the "Yosemite Finish"

https://northeastalpinestart.com/2018/08/09/do-you-need-to-back-up-your-tie-in-knot/

I think a lot of climbers do it just to take up tail... If my tail is short, I pull and dress until its like 4-6", if my tail is too long, I tie a multiwrap backup... you're right about it taking up rope, though, I'll give you that.

I am probably using a backup 50 to 75% of the time, but yeah, not needed.
Big B · · Sin City, NV · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 1
Robert Michael wrote:

So you already knew the answer and were just trolling. 

And it wasn't even a good troll. You just shat on yourself for the virtual equivalent of a mouse turd.

Well, enjoy the tasty morsel.

called it in the very first post

Chris Blatchley · · Somerville, MA · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0

but what about with a bowline??? i kid, i kid.

i'm not sure the same gym-taught climbers that think a 'stopper knot' is necessary are also hanging out on MP... but maybe they are... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Northeast Alpine Start · · Conway, New Hampshire · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 122

Thanks everyone for sharing their opinions! I wanted to get a feel for what people were thinking hence my disclaimer I would have posted a “poll” instead of just the question. I legitimately wanted to see the responses. Not sure that’s the same as “trolling” but thanks all who contributed!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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