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Rename that route NOW! The topic.


Scott Kilts · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 5
Ryan Swanson wrote:

Today’s music leads me to believe the word is fine to say. 

You would think that. My black loved ones and family members find that word depreciating and offensive. Popular music also seems to say it's fine to refer to all women as bitches. Ever try that with your girl/wife? Seems like even if she's cool with it, that's coming from a place where she is trying to 'own' something offensive in an attempt to feel less offended.

YMMV
Tianyu Yao · · San Diego · Joined May 2017 · Points: 15

There are many of those that cite valid reasons for keeping old route names. The works of FAists and the history of a climb are important. But there exist names that are indubitably offensive--some racist, sexist, or simply just crass in nature. Having racist names is offensive towards certain groups of people. Having sexist names does increase the barrier for entry for women. These reasons are just as real and valid as the rocks that we climb.

The conflict we're facing here is that some acknowledge the first but dismiss the second as negligible or petty. I personally value an open community that doesn't ostracize others far more than any FAist or climbing history. To those that believe their action or inaction is too small an influence, they can continue to live their lives--small and insignificant. And to those that genuinely believe climbing history to be of greater importance, we can only pray their children receive a better education.

Fitz · · Rogers, KY · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 20

I was wondering, if after years of reading, considering and debating issues such as this on MP, will there be a final exam amd will we receive any acknowledgement or degree in Philosophy from MPU?  ...lol, enjoyable none the less, but I am sure hoping for that degree!
Climb on, be safe, conscientious, pack out your trash and all that good stuff!

sean burke · · Concord, Ca · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 75

I offended by anything that can be described as fun or a good time.  Jokes, nudity, smiling, hilarity, right out.

Duncan Friches · · Moab, UT · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

I do find some route names offensive or distasteful such as Chinese Eyes in Arches. It should be changed imo but it's really not a big deal. I wonder why folks feel so hard pressed to defend the changing of these names. What do you feel is being lost?

Eric · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 10
Marcelo F wrote: 'Member that MP thread where everyone patted each other's backs for how open-minded and accepting of others the climbing community is, so we didn't need to make any efforts to pull more minorities into the sport? 
pull
verb
  1. exert force on (someone or something), typically by taking hold of them, in order to move or try to move them toward oneself or the origin of the force.
    "he pulled them down onto the couch"synonyms:tug, haul, drag, draw, tow, heave, lug, jerk, wrench

"LISTEN MINORITIES, I LOVE CLIMBING, THEREFORE YOU WILL LOVE CLIMBING, AND YOU ARE NOW GONNA GO CLIMBING, AND YOU ARE GONNA LIKE IT, DON'T MAKE ME USE FORCE!"
· · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
Keenan Waeschle wrote: Ever watch standup from the 80's recently? Rampant jokes about homosexuality that aren't funny anymore, at the time I'm sure they were hilarious. No current big comedian has jokes like that in their act. Humor changes over time, along with culture. You can either fight it, and feel more and more isolated as the world changes around you, or embrace it and change.

Seems like a stretch to dismiss juvenile and racist route names in something as small and white-centric as rock climbing. As climbers do we really need to uphold, maintain, and defend that rape is funny, or enslavement, or lynching? I'm willing to forget the "history" of a route name if it makes someone else not have to feel uncomfortable.

Not watched alot of movies have you? I have over 1800 in my currently movie collection and even newer ones still go all those places. It is the politically friendly big dollar films that may not but still tons of smaller indie films still do.

PosiDave · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65
Eric wrote: pull
verb
  1. exert force on (someone or something), typically by taking hold of them, in order to move or try to move them toward oneself or the origin of the force.
    "he pulled them down onto the couch"synonyms:tug, haul, drag, draw, tow, heave, lug, jerk, wrench

"LISTEN MINORITIES, I LOVE CLIMBING, THEREFORE YOU WILL LOVE CLIMBING, AND YOU ARE NOW GONNA GO CLIMBING, AND YOU ARE GONNA LIKE IT, DON'T MAKE ME USE FORCE!"

Climbing is a sport for privileged people who can afford expensive gear and heaps of time off to get to climbing areas.

But all the privileged people on MP don’t seemTo know that. My families month free income after rent/utilities/transportation was $120 growing up for two people. My minority side of the family has a disposable income of about that today.
But climbing is important to them and not struggling to eat and feed your kids. 
Mikey Wally · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2014 · Points: 4,872
Eric · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 10
PosiDave wrote:

Climbing is a sport for privileged people who can afford expensive gear and heaps of time off to get to climbing areas.

But all the privileged people on MP don’t seemTo know that. My families month free income after rent/utilities/transportation was $120 growing up for two people. My minority side of the family has a disposable income of about that today.
But climbing is important to them and not struggling to eat and feed your kids. 

I wish I could decode this.

· · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
PosiDave wrote:

Climbing is a sport for privileged people who can afford expensive gear and heaps of time off to get to climbing areas.

But all the privileged people on MP don’t seemTo know that. My families month free income after rent/utilities/transportation was $120 growing up for two people. My minority side of the family has a disposable income of about that today.
But climbing is important to them and not struggling to eat and feed your kids. 

Living in US is for privileged people... we can talk after you spend months living in a dirt floor hut in front of a campfire for cooking food.

mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0
ViperScale . wrote:

Living in US is for privileged people... we can talk after you spend months living in a dirt floor hut in front of a campfire for cooking food.

Oh jesus, here we go with the “I spent months volunteering bc I could afford to do so but now I know more than you and I’m better than you even though by pointing this out I sound incredibly privileged but in a cool PC way.”

NickMartel · · Tucson, Arizona · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 1,330

I don’t think re-naming routes is ok. If the name is so offensive then chop the route but the name is integral to the work and cost the FA put into the route so I’m my mind it’s all or nothing either you deal with your discomfort (any maybe grow as a person) or you don’t use the FA’s hardware. 

Marcelo F · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0
Eric wrote: pull
verb
  1. exert force on (someone or something), typically by taking hold of them, in order to move or try to move them toward oneself or the origin of the force.
    "he pulled them down onto the couch"synonyms:tug, haul, drag, draw, tow, heave, lug, jerk, wrench

"LISTEN MINORITIES, I LOVE CLIMBING, THEREFORE YOU WILL LOVE CLIMBING, AND YOU ARE NOW GONNA GO CLIMBING, AND YOU ARE GONNA LIKE IT, DON'T MAKE ME USE FORCE!"

Yep, that was the response that thread got, too. We seemed to settle on, “Minorities are just not into climbing. If they want to get into it, they can do it on their own. Look how open minded and tolerant we already are. WHAT ELSE do you want from us?”

So some of us asked that you stop using racist slurs in route names. And here is the response...
How do you guys know so well what we are interested in?
· · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
mediocre wrote:

Oh jesus, here we go with the “I spent months volunteering bc I could afford to do so but now I know more than you and I’m better than you even though by pointing this out I sound incredibly privileged but in a cool PC way.”

I am extremely privileged, I never said I wasn't. I live in the US.

It is all the assholes out there crying in the US because they claim not to be privileged is what makes me sad. I worked at kitchens giving out food to homeless my entire life growing up. They may be homeless but are still millionaires compared to most people in 3rd world countries.
· · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
NickMartel wrote: I don’t think re-naming routes is ok. If the name is so offensive then chop the route but the name is integral to the work and cost the FA put into the route so I’m my mind it’s all or nothing either you deal with your discomfort (any maybe grow as a person) or you don’t use the FA’s hardware.

Papa Johns?


Can I claim an FA for this? Pretty sure noone else has climbed it although I don't have the best photos to prove it.