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Rename that route NOW! The topic.


Original Post
Franck Vee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 70

Hey,

So this is kinda of a follow-up to this topic. It would be nice to NOT redo the whole argument (the argument is ongoing there, if you do have something to say please just say it THERE not here).

I would like to have concrete examples of route name that people find offensive. I'm just being curious. So obviously the first one is "China Man".

NOTE: one could consider a name offensive, but not think that it warrants or that it is justified to change that name. YOU'RE NOT HERE TO TAKE SIDE IN THE DEBATE THAT ALREADY EXIST IN THE OTHER THREAD. I just want examples of stuff people find offensive as a route name. Bringing example doesn't mean you think they should be changed.

Route names considered offensive by some. Let's try to put them into generic categories:

Historically offensive/ethnicities/minorities/racist shits/sexists:

Vulgarities:Others
EDIT: Good job to the following users for apparently being unable to grasp simple nuances between "pointing route name you PERSONALLY think/consider can be offensive" and "discussing whether or not route names are/can be offensive".
  • Viperscale (a lot apparently)
  • Adrienne
  • PosiDave (a lot apparently)
  • mediocre
  • David Arredondo
  • reboot
  • JSquared
Tim Lutz · · Colo-Rado Springs · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 5
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

None of them are offensive. They're just route names. Although being offended and acting outraged is very de rigueur these days.

Adrienne DiRosario · · Troy, NY · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 0
FrankPS wrote: Although being offended and acting outraged is very de rigueur these days.

Exactly this

ViperScale . · · McMurdo Station, AQ · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 240

I find The Nose offensive can we get a name change for that route? Well really anything with THE in it is offensive to me can someone go through the entire MP database and remove THE from every single route?

PosiDave · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65
Adrienne DiRosario wrote:

Exactly this

We better pull their sponsorships and publically banish them for their sense of gross humor...

If a Chinese man named a climb China man, can a privileged kid from Colorado be triggers? 
What about the boulder problem Dirty white boys and Puerto Rican’s, do you think they are going to change that you educated Europeans and Carribean Americans?
These are the things that keep me up at night.
mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0

Why is China Doll offensive? Isn’t that a doll from China made from porcelain? I get China Man, but was doll used as a way to degrade people in the past?
And if China Man is offensive, shouldn’t Irishman be offensive as well? Just bc the Irish are white doesn’t mean they weren’t heavily discriminated against in this country’s not so distant past. 

Franck Vee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 70
reboot wrote: 

My reading is nobody actually considered "China Doll" offensive, it was mentioned as a feeble comparison to the other route name. Calling a person "China Doll" is considered offensive, but naming a route w/ very delicate footwork on smooth rock? You can ask Bob Horan why he named it, but there's plenty benefits of doubt here.

Tim Rutz says he considers the name offensive and he is the only one (so far) NOT saying that to throll or because it's raining outside or  because he's got no life and/or is 14 years old and unable to grasp the point behind this topic. That's enough to be on the list - whether or not others agree isn't the point, the point is I'd like to know what route names SOME PEOPLE find genuinely offensive. Regardless of whether or not YOU or others find it offensive.

I'm not trying to write a definitive guide to what's offensive.

EDIT: clarified my comments about Tim.
Jon Nelson · · Redmond, WA · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 4,835

I see quite a few that aren't offensive, but very juvenile. The ones Tim lists above are good examples.
The route creators think they are being funny, I suppose, but in the end, the names just detract from the climbing and probably make many folks avoid the routes.

J Squared · · santa barbara, CA · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0
Franck Vee wrote:

Tim Rutz says he considers the name offensive and he  is not saying to throll because it's raining outside and/or he's got no life and/or is 14 years old and unable to grasp the point behind this topic. That's enough to be on the list - whether or not others agree isn't the point, the point is I'd like to know what route names SOME PEOPLE find genuinely offensive. Regardless of whether or not YOU or others find it offensive.

I'm not trying to write a definitive guide to what's offensive.

what ARE you trying to do.


you DO realize that if you gather enough people together and ask them "what's genuinely offensive" ... you'll have a "definitive guide to what's offensive" right quick..

what's offensive to me, is people coming into a sport that is both highly treacherous and technical... and then bickering about the names of the lines. 
Franck Vee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 70
Tim Lutz wrote:

Why so hater bro?! You wouldn't even know about the problems I listed without my 14 year old, living in my mother's basement knowledge.

I think you are confusing me for John Verm Sherman, you know, the hallowed godfather of modern bouldering and the V grade system.

Re-read my comments: I'm basically saying you're the only one answering so far NOT to troll/mess things up. I'm on your side.

PosiDave · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65

When we change the names of
Such heinous offensive things, can the person climbing it andrenaming it claim the FPCA.

I think first politically correct ascents will be all the rage with the folks of San Fran, Portland and Denver.

If we could eliminate the vulgarians and Stonemasters out of climbing history to
Keep the culture clean that would be great
to.

Did the make sure the rock signed a permission slip before they touched it?
Is the influx of overstep juggy routes body shaming Slab climbs in Favor of The appeal of bigger jugs? 
Bolting climbs and circumcision also seemSimilar in this debate and should be the choice of the rock and not the bolter.

David Arredondo · · Austin, TX · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 0

Here's a fun game:

If you think I am rude, but I don't think I am rude--am I rude?

Example: We are driving. I cut you off, because I'm in a hurry, almost missed my exit, the baby is dying in the backseat etc . . . but you have no knowledge of my reasons. From your perspective, I almost caused a car accident with you due to impatience. Am I rude in this scenario? Does my motive change your right to be offended--even if you will never know my motive?

That one was really just for fun. Here's a more pertinent one:

The government of the United states wants to name a mountain. They call it Mount Mckinley. Local people dislike this name, as they've been calling it Denali. They continue to call it Denali, because they find the name 'Mount Mckinley' offensive. Remember, the United States legally owns the mountain, but the local people have' finders keepers' rights. Which party is rude?

A final--hypothetical--scenario.

I am out bouldering with friends. We run into another party working a sick line. I ask the about the name and grade. They reply: Spics on parade, V7. As a chicano (mexican american), I find this offensive. I have no 'finders keepers' rights--does that exempt the first ascensionist from being rude?

csproul · · Davis, CA · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

The guide to NRG omits the full name of STANC...

ViperScale . · · McMurdo Station, AQ · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 240
David Arredondo wrote: Here's a fun game:

If you think I am rude, but I don't think I am rude--am I rude?

Example: We are driving. I cut you off, because I'm in a hurry, almost missed my exit, the baby is dying in the backseat etc . . . but you have no knowledge of my reasons. From your perspective, I almost caused a car accident with you due to impatience. Am I rude in this scenario? Does my motive change your right to be offended--even if you will never know my motive?

That one was really just for fun. Here's a more pertinent one:

The government of the United states wants to name a mountain. They call it Mount Mckinley. Local people dislike this name, as they've been calling it Denali. They continue to call it Denali, because they find the name 'Mount Mckinley' offensive. Remember, the United States legally owns the mountain, but the local people have' finders keepers' rights. Which party is rude?

A final--hypothetical--scenario.

I am out bouldering with friends. We run into another party working a sick line. I ask the about the name and grade. They reply: Spics on parade, V7. As a chicano (mexican american), I find this offensive. I have no 'finders keepers' rights--does that exempt the first ascensionist from being rude?

You are rude whether your kid is dying or not. The question is it excusable to be rude because your child is dying not whether your actions were or were not rude.

In your case of Denali the United States controls the mountain and has the right to rename it whatever they want be it rude or not they can still do it. Whether or not it is worth doing it or should do it is another question.
Franck Vee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 70
csproul wrote: The guide to NRG omits the full name of STANC...

What's the full name? Is it on MP?

PosiDave · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65
David Arredondo wrote: Here's a fun game:

If you think I am rude, but I don't think I am rude--am I rude?

Example: We are driving. I cut you off, because I'm in a hurry, almost missed my exit, the baby is dying in the backseat etc . . . but you have no knowledge of my reasons. From your perspective, I almost caused a car accident with you due to impatience. Am I rude in this scenario? Does my motive change your right to be offended--even if you will never know my motive?

That one was really just for fun. Here's a more pertinent one:

The government of the United states wants to name a mountain. They call it Mount Mckinley. Local people dislike this name, as they've been calling it Denali. They continue to call it Denali, because they find the name 'Mount Mckinley' offensive. Remember, the United States legally owns the mountain, but the local people have' finders keepers' rights. Which party is rude?

A final--hypothetical--scenario.

I am out bouldering with friends. We run into another party working a sick line. I ask the about the name and grade. They reply: Spics on parade, V7. As a chicano (mexican american), I find this offensive. I have no 'finders keepers' rights--does that exempt the first ascensionist from being rude?

But what if you as a Mexican American name the climb Spics on parade?

Or I name mine Injun death machine? Or Pinche Gringo? 

If someone names a climb Trumptrain, is it enough to justify renaming it? 

As Drug/Alcohol/premarital sex is forbidden to many groups, if they find those things offensive, can We Ban them from climbing areas/public use land as it can offend them? It would better the area for all
ViperScale . · · McMurdo Station, AQ · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 240

Why aren't native americans offended by being called native americans? Shouldn't they just be called natives because they are native to the area that is now america and were here before america.

Everett · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 25

Franck Vee, asking for public comment on problematically named routes is never going to go well without someone to squash the noisy comments. Very few people who actually care are going to sift through a thread of insults.

David Arredondo · · Austin, TX · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 0
PosiDave wrote:

But what if you as a Mexican American name the climb Spics on parade?

Or I name mine Injun death machine? Or Pinche Gringo? 

If someone names a climb Trumptrain, is it enough to justify renaming it? 

As Drug/Alcohol/premarital sex is forbidden to many groups, if they find those things offensive, can We Ban them from climbing areas/public use land as it can offend them? It would better the area for all

If I named a climb Spics on parade, I know that I would betray my sister, and my family, all of whom I love. I can say for certain that my father--having been called a spic whole life--would be devastated to find that I was wallowing such self hate. And I'd bet I could't call a climb that without hating myself.

For your second question--I, for one, would be offended. Hurt. I would feel attacked. I will leave it to you to guess why.

The orange man in the white house gained immense popularity by implying that all mexicans--meaning myself, my father, my sister, my mother--are rapists, bringing crime and drugs into a country that my family has lived in since it was Mexico (fun fact: a almost a third of the continental united states used to be Mexico. My family has lived here since before the Mexican American war, when the land changed hands).

We can do anything if we put our mind to it ;)

I've played your game. Now take a walk on the wild side--answer my questions, and play mine.
Super Fluke · · Earth · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 182

Apparently all route names are racist and all routes need to be renamed to a non racial number system. then again numbers are racist too. Please delete the route name feature on MP so I do not have to sit in the cry closet every time I visit this racist site. Change the world to fit me, I don't want to fix myself I like my bubble.

While we're at it please change the grading, harder grades should not be a bigger number they should all be equal, rating inequality = racism. Don't even get me started on subdividing grades.

Also all the black and white color on this site is too racist. it is not equal to other colors.

Think of the children!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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