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Climbing Closures in Chiang Mai, Thailand (Crazy Horse)


Original Post
speth · · Denver · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 45

Not sure what the story is here. Sounds like a disagreement with local officials, but seems like Crazy Horse is off limits for the time being.

http://www.thailandclimbing.com/crazy-horse-notice-closure/

Alan Weiner · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2018 · Points: 0

yeah, wish I had read this earlier. just booked a month here...

Francis Haden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 9
speth wrote: Not sure what the story is here. Sounds like a disagreement with local officials, but seems like Crazy Horse is off limits for the time being.

http://www.thailandclimbing.com/crazy-horse-notice-closure/

Correct there is a temporary (self imposed) closure for the time being and the issue is being worked on.

I am one of the key developers but won't comment any further on the circumstances regarding the closure suffice to say discussions with officials are likely to start soon.

It is worth registering your disappointment that a ban is in place via their Facebook page (link below) as the response is being tracked for use in encouraging the reopening of the area.

https://www.facebook.com/thailandclimbing/

speth · · Denver · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 45
Francis Haden wrote:

Correct there is a temporary (self imposed) closure for the time being and the issue is being worked on.

I am one of the key developers but won't comment any further on the circumstances regarding the closure suffice to say discussions with officials are likely to start soon.

It is worth registering your disappointment that a ban is in place via their Facebook page (link below) as the response is being tracked for use in encouraging the reopening of the area.

https://www.facebook.com/thailandclimbing/

I can probably guess what’s going on here, and if you care to elaborate via PM, or not at all... that’s fine too. Just asking because I’ve never actually known - is Crazy Horse on public land - and that’s part of the dispute?

Francis Haden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 9
speth wrote:

I can probably guess what’s going on here, and if you care to elaborate via PM, or not at all... that’s fine too. Just asking because I’ve never actually known - is Crazy Horse on public land - and that’s part of the dispute?

Can't really go into details. I'm aware of what the likely issue is but it's best not to discuss it here or via PM. Key thing is that CMRCA are handling it and my guess is that it will be resolved eventually; there are connected people on both sides of this dispute!

It's not about land ownership per se, more about approval to use it if there is anything 'improper' to be found. Bearing in mind we've been developing this area for over 15 years. The crag is NOT in a public park (as claimed) and the business has operated entirely within the law eg work permits, business registration etc. 

Alan Weiner · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2018 · Points: 0

Francis,

Im 3 days into a month I booked in Chiang Mai. Forgive me for asking, but does the closure being CMRCA "self-imposed" mean that the crag is closed for private parties that are not booking CMRCA services? I think I know that the answer is yes, but just thought I'd check. If I were to drive out to the crag, is there actually a sign declaring it closed? Was bummed to find out about the closure. Was climbing here last month :-/

Thanks!

Francis Haden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 9
Alan Weiner wrote: Francis,

Im 3 days into a month I booked in Chiang Mai. Forgive me for asking, but does the closure being CMRCA "self-imposed" mean that the crag is closed for private parties that are not booking CMRCA services? I think I know that the answer is yes, but just thought I'd check. If I were to drive out to the crag, is there actually a sign declaring it closed? Was bummed to find out about the closure. Was climbing here last month :-/

Thanks!

Hi Alan,


CMRCA are not conducting business there until the 'issue' is resolved so neither are their Thai staff earning any revenue from guiding. The directive from CMRCA is that the crag remains closed to everyone including the business itself. There are signs up at the crag regarding the closure.

I'm reasonably confident the situation will be resolved but it will take time to work out some 'face saving' solution so anybody's guess when that will be. The only possible thing not done correctly was Provincial Gov sign-off on top of the district approval to use the land and given the crag has been developed and operating for over 15 years, I'm sure you can deduce that this issue is not something related to that.

Cheers
Alan Weiner · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2018 · Points: 0

Is Crazyhorse still closed? It looks like the access issue warning has been removed from the mountainproject page.Fingers crossed.

Ryan Nevius · · Chiang Mai, TH · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 898

Yes, there are still access issues (confirmed locally). The warning is alive and well on Mountain Project: https://www.mountainproject.com/area/106579963/crazy-horse

Francis Haden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 9

While all the Mae On locals are supporting people to continue climbing (who are)   

Ryan Nevius · · Chiang Mai, TH · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 898

Message from CMRCA, posted today:

Dear Climbing Community,

As many of you know, on 31 July 2018 we were asked by the local government to notify the community that access to climbing at Crazy Horse Buttress would be temporarily closed. If you have ventured to Crazy Horse Buttress since then, you will have noticed an official closure sign from the office of the head of the Sub District as well as an additional notice from CMRCA.

We completely understand that this closure has affected each of you very personally. If you are a traveling climber, we are deeply sorry for the inconvenience this has caused. If you are a local climber, we completely understand the need to get out and crank regularly and appreciate your patience. CMRCA has suspended all operations at Crazy Horse since 31 July 2018 and we too are feeling the effects of the closure.

We are completely blown away by the outpouring of support both publicly and privately as we navigate this situation. Our intention has always been to build a strong community and we could not be more humbled by the commitment of this community. We have received daily requests to help and incredible understanding by the community from all areas of Thailand and throughout the world as we work through this situation. For that, we thank you.

Over the past month, CMRCA has chosen to remain quiet regarding the issue. This has largely been at the request of the local government and authorities to help minimize exposure to the issue and ensure a speedy resolution that ultimately results in the re-opening of Crazy Horse to the entire climbing community. While we have been quiet on social media, we assure you that we have been working tirelessly behind the scenes to regain authorized access to Crazy Horse, both for CMRCA and for the wider climbing community. We are actively communicating and meeting with the leaders of the Mae On community, the police and government officials every day to move the process forward. Our ultimate goal is to secure permanent climbing area access.

While it may seem that it is ok to visit the area to climb, we can only repeat our request that the community joins together to support our efforts as we collaborate with the Mae On community and local government to find a solution. This means suspending climbing activities at Crazy Horse and recognizing that climbing there, even if it seems ok could put access at risk for all of us in the future. Crazy Horse Buttress is a model for climbing development and community engagement throughout the country and our efforts are to help solidify access not just from local authorities but also provincial and national authorities. Our intention is to steward a process and become a model for all climbing areas throughout Thailand ultimately preserving access to all existing areas while also creating a path for development of new climbing areas.

We repeat our recommendation that all climbing in northern Thailand is suspended until this issue is resolved. We also request that the community remain positive and respectful in their public discussions of this issue. We want to actively support the community members, government officials, and businesses who are working tirelessly to restore climbing access at Crazy Horse Buttress. Though we are unable to provide a timeline at this moment, our sincere hope is that this situation will be resolved quite soon.

We are happy to sit down and chat with anyone who has questions or wishes to understand the situation better. Please feel free to reach out to us by phone or email to set up an appointment.
For our part, we commit to continue to work for access and climbing at Crazy Horse and will update you as soon as we have any new information. We appreciate your patience and are confident that we can climb this mountain together.

Thank you for your continued support.

Climb On

CMRCA
Francis Haden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 9
Ryan Nevius wrote: Message from CMRCA, posted today:

It'll be resolved.

Amanda Friedman · · Baltimore, MD · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 0

I'm on a family and will be in Chang Mai the 20th to the 25th, I could use a day off from family. If this opens and anyone wants a partner let me know. I will need to rent rope and draws but can lead/clean, etc. 

Sean Reinhart · · Bend, OR · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0

Francis and CMRCA,
Any progress on your efforts to solve the closure problem? Thank you!

Joshua Noble · · Seattle/Berkeley/Copenhagen · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0

Friends and I are planning to go to Chiang Mai 11/20-ish to climb. Wondering if we should just stay down South for our whole trip?

Francis Haden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 9
Sean Reinhart wrote: Francis and CMRCA,
Any progress on your efforts to solve the closure problem? Thank you!

Still closed   

Randall Gann · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 25

Went by CMRCA yesterday, and I was told that the closure will remain in effect for the rest of this year. The young man also told me that it “may” open again in 2019.

Tao Techakanon · · Bangkok, TH · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 372

For anyone traveling to Asia for climbing, it's best to cross Chiang Mai off the list until further notice.  

This really is a big stink to the local climbing community and as Randall mentioned above, Crazy horse will likely remain closed for the rest of 2018.  

Gotta love Thai's Bureaucracy.....:*(

Francis Haden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 9

This also affects all crags in the North, not solely Crazy Horse. E.g Chiang Dao too.

Not CMRCA's fault, they're stuck between District Gov' (local area to the crag) and Provincial (Chiang Mai main Gov') who are battling it out over how access was granted in the first place when an application should have gone through the Governor's office in Chiang Mai once it had been agreed locally at District level.

Climbers should not climb there as it will further jeopardise the local Mayor who is facing potential jail time over have granted access.

Thai land laws are complicated it seems.

Tao Techakanon · · Bangkok, TH · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 372
Francis Haden wrote: 

Thai land laws are complicated it seems.

you misspelled corrupted. 


:*(
. Mobes · · MDI · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 865

I'm trying to understand how any branch of the Thai government would want to stifle tourism. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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