Alpine rock climbing- Party of 3 Swapping leads on Double/Twin rope

Sounds like a nightmare considering you are going to have to untie and move ropes every single pitch. Just get rid of one of the 3 or just lead in batches so if everyone wants to lead each one gets 1/3 of the pitches so you only have to untie 2 times.

All photographed and explained (page 89) in The Mountain Guide Manual! PM me and I’ll ship you a copy for a discount...

No PAS’s, simple exchange at belay, no need to restack, always rope in the system, and rope mgmt (chapter 7) clearly explained...

I wouldn’t suggest leading on a single half rope...I think I read a comment suggesting that...nor would I clip the ropes alternately as in half technique. This invites bad fall potential on traversing pitches...those cords are rated half AND twin, correct? Just rock em as twins unless you have a good reason to go halves...

PM me! Rob

Just jumped on the laptop...apologies, was typing on the phone. Anyway, happy to ship anybody a book if they're interested ($20 shipped anywhere in the lower 48; note: you might be able to get it even cheaper on the godless Amazon machine?!). This transition, swapping leaders in a party of 3, can take about 90 seconds if the party has practiced it a couple times. No restacking or "moving ropes", nobody on a low-stretch tether (PAS or sling), only real time suck will be swapping gear to the new leader....have fun man, good luck!

rgold wrote: I'm going to try to summarize.

1. The OP's original plan will create a tangled nightmare in very short order.  You can't have one of the leader's ropes feeding off the top of the stack and the other rope feeding off the bottom.

2. Anyone who has read my posts over time knows I'm a believer in PAS's.  But not as the sole connection to a belay anchor---that's a job for the rope.  The whole unroping/reroping process can be handled with just the ropes without anyone being untied.  The PAS's can back that up (and have a multitude of other applications) but shouldn't be the only connection to the anchor.

3. The OP has the the leading order wrong.  The trailing follower should be the next leader, because they've cleaned the gear and can at least partially rack it on the way up.

Here's how to handle the rope-switching order. The verbal description is longer than the actual process!  In a nutshell, the second who isn't leading the next pitch will have to switch the ends of the rope they are climbing on---this is necessary so that both ropes to the next leader run off the top of the pile---and pass the discarded end to the new leader.  In more detail, when the leader reaches the stance, they clove  in with both ropes and untie from the rope running to the second who won't be leading.  When the second who won't be leading arrives at the stance, they clove the rope they were belayed on to the anchor and go off belay.  Then they tie in to the end the leader has left hanging from the anchor, (which is the other end of that second's rope.)  The non-leading second then unties from the end of their rope they just cloved in with, leaving it hanging for the eventual new leader.  When the new leader arrives, they tie in to the end left hanging by the non-leading second and are attached to the anchor but set up to lead the next pitch with both ropes running off the top of the pile.

In spite of the complexity of the description, this really isn't complicated.  The non-leading second ties into a rope left hanging for them and hangs the other end for the new leader, who ties into that hanging end when they arrive at the stance.  Human nature being what it is, having everyone backed up with a PAS makes a whole lot of sense, but as with any PAS application, it isn't essential.

I suppose it is obvious that with all the untying and retying, knots have to be carefully checked.  Equally obvious is that the new leader has to be clear on which rope they are going to untie from when they reach the next belay. Also, in order to facilitate retying, anchor lengths for the ropes that will be untied and left hanging should be a bit longer than usual.

4. Rope clipping.  Rather than make rules, the best approach is for the leader to make sure both seconds are always properly protected from pendulum falls. If the leader wants to take advantage of half rope technique, they can  often do so by having the leading second clip the trailing second's rope into any gear used exclusively for the leading second (this to insure that the trailing second doesn't miss cleaning pieces).  This works as long as the two strands are not so far apart that the leading second can't reach the trailing second's strand.  Nonetheless, the need to protect both seconds from pendulum falls means that classic half-rope technique will often have to be abandoned and both ropes clipped to the same pro.

This is the correct answer (no surprise), though the following order is IMO a minor issue. 

Also, having the seconds simul-climb will almost always be faster than otherwise.  The leader just has to learn how to belay two followers at once, which is not difficult.  If your seconds climb at roughly the same rate it will make it easier on the belayer and your ropes will stack more evenly for the next pitch.  Just anecdotally, I once followed a well-orchestrated guided team of five who climbed in a 1-2-2 flying v formation and we gave up trying to pass them because they moved just as fast as we could. 

I belay with a re-direct and run both ropes through a single oval, using my index finger between the two ropes to manage variations in rope tension, i.e. I can take in rope on one side at the same time I don't with the other, all done with one hand.  You may find other techniques that work for you, e.g. an autoblock. 

Re point 2 in Rich's reply, the leader has two rope ends that should already be in the belay. All he/she has to do is untie ONE of them, pass it to the appropriate person who ties in and THEN unties the new leader's second end for them to tie into.  No one is ever not connected to the belay, and no use of a PAS is required or even desired, it is just wasted motion and more junk in the way.  Belay exchanges are where beginners waste the most amount of time.  IMO the leader should have a belay set up within 60 seconds and when they say off belay they should be ready to haul rope up essentially immediately, and when that ropes comes taut, they should be ready to have the seconds on belay essentially immediately.  Think a bit about the steps that are required and with a little planning you'll move much faster at belays.

Anyway, good luck.