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Top rope solo question


Original Post
Briggs Lazalde · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0

Just getting into it. The guy I know who does it locally is usually hard to get ahold of. Anyway yes I will receive proper instruction but as far as showing up with the correct gear, I understand that aside from biners, and those necessary parts, I could get away with my microtraxion and a single ascender which I have.. Ive seen a lot of setups and will add more pieces but is this good for starts? Other pieces anyone recommends? Rope man? Rescuecenders?

Briggs Lazalde · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0

Good to know. Quick hints and tips helps a lot so let them come

Briggs Lazalde · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0

Saw a video on youtube. Guy climbs both strands with a dynamic line fixed to anchor via I think clove hitch. Ascends with a rocknroll on each strand both are attached to 1 HMS biner... Prussiks on each strand above those rocknrolls both Prussiks attached to another locker. Rope man backing all this up on a runner. He has essential a rocknrolls on each strand backef up by a Prussiks above that and Rope man above that...do those rocknrolls have teeth? Will a Rope man 1 catch well on 9.2mm or 9.4mm rope?

Chris Blatchley · · Somerville, MA · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0
superflyjt24 Francisco wrote: If using a toothed ascender like a microtrax, be sure to use static and not dynamic rope.

yeah i guess all those guys jugging on dynamic ropes are surely gonna die. this is wrong advice

Briggs Lazalde · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0
Chris Blatchley wrote:

yeah i guess all those guys jugging on dynamic ropes are surely gonna die. this is wrong advice

I can only guess that the next response will be somewhere in the vicinity of falling on a rope w a toothed device is much different than weighting a rope with a tooth device

Chris Blatchley · · Somerville, MA · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0
Briggs Lazalde wrote:

I can only guess that the next response will be somewhere in the vicinity of falling on a rope w a toothed device is much different than weighting a rope with a tooth device

jugging a rope involves plenty of bouncing. falls on top rope solo shouldn't be any more than a foot or two if your rope tension is good enough and your trax is feeding smoothly.

Ryan Swanson · · Pepedidnothingwrong, freejg · Joined Jan 2018 · Points: 50

Only use a static rope if you can ensure that your primary device has no slack above it, unless you like being jolted around.  I see absolutely no reason to use a static line for TR solo except trying to avoid a sawing motion over a sharp edge.  Do yourself a favor and buy/make a rope protector if you have edges you have to run the rope over.  Or you can just clove the line into a bolt/piece of gear on the downhill side of the edge, so that is your "anchor" and the anchor up top is a backup.  The same can be done with an upside down traxion device.

Ron O · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0

I bounce very little when jugging (technique), top roping can mean a few meters of moves before snugging; much harder yank potential,..

jess sayin....

Max Rausch · · Portland, OR · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 130

Briggs, I've used the exact setup you intend to use on a dynamic rope with no issue. I use the ascender as my primary device, with the bottom of it clipped to a gridlock on my belay loop. I then clip the top of the ascender to a chest harness made from a double length sling. (The handle is facing away from you.) If setup right, any fall shouldn't be more than an inch or 2 in length.

Buck Rio · · MN · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0
superflyjt24 Francisco wrote: If using a toothed ascender like a microtrax, be sure to use static and not dynamic rope.

This is not true. I have used dynamic rope exclusively and am still breathing. I use two Petzl Microtrax. My rope is old but is in pristine condition and I fall a lot. You will lose a slight bit of elevation, aka rope stretch, when you fall with a dynamic. But I think that results in less stress on the entire system.

I'm not saying you can't use a static rope, but don't be afraid to use a dynamic if you don't own static.  

Jack Servedio · · Raleigh,NC · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 35
Ron O wrote: I bounce very little when jugging (technique), top roping can mean a few meters of moves before snugging; much harder yank potential,..

jess sayin....

If you are TRSing properly, the bottom of your rope is weighted and you are using a chest harness or bungee or something to keep your trax oriented properly, if you fall more than a few inches from slack you screwed up. The ministrax can handle a 4kn force before it'll rip the sheath off. If you generated 4kn while on TRS you done fucked up.

Maybe you jug straight up wight out bouncing too much, but what about cleaning heavily leaning terrain? Do you re-aid every slight traverse or lower out on everything? No - of course nobody does that and you take a little mini swing. That puts the same amount of force on the ascender as a TRS fall.
Ron O · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0

Jack you are assuming.

I use more primitive gear but get by ok.

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,644

You're gonna get a bunch of responses, and every method has its strengths and weaknesses, but the equipment you mentioned is exactly what I use.  If my anchor is two bolts, I clove a draw to each one, and leave a bight to hook into when I get to the top.  I weight the bottom of the lines with a few pieces of gear.  You don't need much.  The micro trax goes on a short draw with lockers on each end, and is attached to the belay loop.  The handled ascender on the bottom end goes on a locker to the belay loop.  I use a 4 ft sling as a chest harness, and hook the top end of the ascender to the chest harness/4ft sling.  The hardest part is disengaging the ascender at the top, so leave yourself enough room to do that.  I hook into the bight with a tether (usually just a 2 ft sling), put my belay device on the line that the micro trax is on, disengage the micro trax, disengage the ascender, double check my belay device, remove my tether, rap down, and repeat.  Works pretty well and it's my preferred system.

BrokenChairs BrettC · · Sultan, WA · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 235

I’ve used your exact setup for years on dynamic rope with no issues or damage to the rope. I use the micro on the top and thread webbing through it and around my neck. (It doesn’t get weight but keeps the micro at your chest so it never shock loads). The back up ascender is nice, makes escaping easier. Last time I was out I misestimated how much rope I’d need and ended up 40’ off the ground in space when I reached the end. I used prussics to escape and jumared back up to where I could reach the wall. Your system is fine just always bring stuff to escape it if needs be. I used a BFK (big fucking knot) for the top super easy to untie after being weighted and bomber!

Edit to add Jake gave great advice. Don’t ever run the PC pulls into the knot at the top or you’ll be sorry!!  

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,644
superflyjt24 Francisco wrote: If using a toothed ascender like a microtrax, be sure to use static and not dynamic rope.

This is unnecessary.  I've used a dynamic rope and an ascender at my chest and a microtraxion a couple hundred times probably, fallen plenty and have never damaged a rope.  Not even a little.  One should avoid lead falls, absolutely, but a properly rigged top rope solo configuration won't do any damage.

Kyle Elliott · · Everett, WA · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 580

I solo every week and have used a dozen different systems but the one I use the most is two microtraxions, with some cord on the top device. I also have never used a static rope, having always used a single dynamic line. 

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0
Briggs Lazalde wrote: Just getting into it. The guy I know who does it locally is usually hard to get ahold of. Anyway yes I will receive proper instruction but as far as showing up with the correct gear, I understand that aside from biners, and those necessary parts, I could get away with my microtraxion and a single ascender which I have.. Ive seen a lot of setups and will add more pieces but is this good for starts? Other pieces anyone recommends? Rope man? Rescuecenders?

Particularly just starting out consider using the double rope method where you are actively belayed on one and the other rope is your back up. This gives you some margin for error as you dial in your setup. Start off on shorter stuff too before TR soloing fixed lines on Freerider....;).

Also, highly recommend a Gri-Gri on the second rope. This allows you to easily take your weight onto the second rope hands free while you deal with any cluster or jams you have gotten yourself into and you are already into your rappel at the top to run laps. Eventually the GG is cumbersome, but is good when starting.

Fixing your line at the top with a Clove is perfectly fine, but though another separately to another higher part of the anchor is good for the gri-gri side. This guarantees redundancy and allows the gri-gri belay to take weight off of the tie in with the trax on it...helpful if you inadvertently get jammed at the top etc.

Eventually you will use w/e safeties you are comfortable with but err on the side of caution to start.

YGD™.
Nate Tastic · · Sutter Creek · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 10
Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

Particularly just starting out consider using the double rope method where you are actively belayed on one and the other is your back up. This gives you some margin for error as you dial in your setup. Start off on shorter stuff too before TR soloing fixed lines on Freerider....;).

Also, highly recommend a Gri-Gri on the second rope. This allows you to easily take your weight onto the second rope hands free while you deal with any cluster or jams you have gotten yourself into and you are already into your rappel at the top to run laps. Eventually the GG is cumbersome, but is good when starting.

Fixing your line at the top with a Clove is perfectly fine, but though another separately to another higher part of the anchor is good for the gri-gri side. This guarantees redundancy and allows the gri-gri belay to take weight off of the tie in with the trax on it...helpful if you inadvertently get jammed at the top etc.

Eventually you will use w/e safeties you are comfortable with but err on the side of caution to start.

YGD™.

Is there a bit more rope management when using a gri-gri as the second backup? I can see the benefit with it, you're ready to rappel if needed and or when getting to the top (running laps etc.) but, seems like you're going to be pulling a lot of rope through the device every five feet to catch it up, which seems like a PITA. 

Or is there a way the get it to "roll" up the rope that I'm not aware of? 

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0

The higher you climb and the more rope weight below the GG the easier it gets. It takes a little more endurance (hanging there and pulling up the slack) and simulates more like leading the pitch.

People also solo TR routinely with a GG...it works. The trax setups are just nicer.

Nate Tastic · · Sutter Creek · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 10
Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: The higher you climb and the more rope weight below the GG the easier it gets. It takes a little more endurance (hanging there and pulling up the slack) and simulates more like leading the pitch.

People also solo TR routinely with a GG...it works. The trax setups are just nicer.

Kind of like when clipping or placing pro. I can see that as being an advantage and then you're already set to rappel and the second backup isn't a tooth type device. I realize people have been using it for years so I'm sure it's mostly fine but, any thoughts on taking short falls on one? I realize it's the backup but, for sake of discussion. 

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0

People have been lead soloing with GGs for years.  Maker doesn't rec it, but all them dudes solo aid climbing or short fixing commonly use one.

When in doubt, tie a knot below it.

This is one area where the "no cross-loading" locker is useful.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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