Climbing Rope & Denatured Alcohol

Marc801 C wrote: Does Bluewater know about bleach?

Bleach isn't OK for your skin...

Translate "ok for your skin" to "if its ok for you to drink, its ok for your rope" and I think you will be ok.

People do use dilute bleach for all kinds of things including purifying water or cleaning minor wounds....if the dose is low enough its ok to drink.

Boissal wrote:

Bleach isn't OK for your skin...

Depends on the concentration. 

Thanks for your value able answers

Marc801 C wrote:

Depends on the concentration. 

The dose makes the poison.

Mark Straub wrote:

The chemical composition of the rope may be altered due to isopropanol exposure, even if all the isopropanol is gone.  

Nope. Not a chance. Aliphatic alcohols will not chemically react with polyamides under the conditions the gear has experienced. (Yes, I am a chemist)

James Wang wrote: I got a short reply from BlueWater ropes as follows:

"Thanks for reaching out. Your rope is ok to climb on. One of our rules is if it’s ok for your skin then it’s ok for your rope. Let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns."

I'm going to reply to see if they actually looked into the chemical composition of the Crown stove alcohol or if that even matters based on their rule.

That doesn't seem like a particularly good rule.

Petrolatum (i.e. petroleum jelly or Vaseline) is obviously safe to use on skin, but it is reported to have detrimental effects on nylon ("Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use"--see https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart/).

PRRose wrote:

That doesn't seem like a particularly good rule.

Petrolatum (i.e. petroleum jelly or Vaseline) is obviously safe to use on skin, but it is reported to have detrimental effects on nylon ("Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use"--see https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart/).

I'll bet my coillege degree that that is an error. Petrolatum is about as chemically non-reactive a hydrocarbon as you're going to find.

I guess part of the problem is nylon is a generic term? I found this chart and its saying that this "nylon" material is good for compatibility with the ispropanol, yet "Temporary loss of stiffness" was an observed effect: http://www.hangerlok.com/assets/pdf/nylon66_chem_resist.pdf

Here is another chart saying the two are not that great at compatibility (who knows if one manufacturer is just coping the others chart?):

http://www.kelco.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/nylon-chemical-compatibility-guide.pdf

I'm no chemist, but I'd recon these compatibility charts are probably intended for storage of a chemical... i.e. with full submersion of isopropanol for a long duration of time.  Here is another response that seemed pretty sciencey that seemed to back up the manufacturers response: https://www.reddit.com/r/chemistry/comments/6tgmkd/does_isopropyl_alcohol_dissolve_nylon/

I'd say that if the manufacturer is giving an ok, your probably not going to die, but do we know if it even made contact with your rope? How much fuel was missing from the bottle? 

I'd also agree with Crown that this fuel containing Methanol, Ethanol, Isopropanol, Methyl Isobutyl Keytone (and trace ingredients (if any) present <1%) are ok for your skin:

Gunkiemike wrote:

I'll bet my coillege degree that that is an error. Petrolatum is about as chemically non-reactive a hydrocarbon as you're going to find.

You'd think. Some charts also say that beer and nylon are incompatible.

Steve Skarvinko wrote: When you took the rope out, was it physically wet or was anything else wet in the pack?  I'd be worried if it was known to be exposed / submerged for a long period of time (compatibility charts are usually based on full submersion). If not, it sounds like the spill was probably a very small quantity and contained in your pot, so I think your most likely good to go. This fuel has a high vapor pressure (86.1 mmHg) so when it spilled it turned into vapors quickly (which is what you had been smelling). However your rope is your lifeline and when in doubt, replace it. As Mark and 20Kn are saying, the Isopropanol is not compatible with nylon. Here's another source:

The question is if you want to risk your life and/or your partners life for the price of a new rope? Its probably fine for a TR, but IDK if I'd want to use it to catch a big fall if it was questionable.

Another reply from BlueWater this morning:

Good to know. YGD™.

Gunkiemike wrote:

Nope. Not a chance. Aliphatic alcohols will not chemically react with polyamides under the conditions the gear has experienced. (Yes, I am a chemist)

You're right, I was oversimplifying when I probably shouldn't.  I know that isopropanol won't cleave the amide bonds, but I figured that intercalation of isopropanol between the amide chains might be possible, leading to a change in crystallinity and a subsequent reduction in tensile strength.  I can't think of any other reason why it would be listed on the chemical compatibility chart as incompatible with Nylon- maybe I'm missing something here?

wut.

Nylon is hydrophilic and when it absorbs water it loses strength. It would thus not surprise me that nylon would absorb other small polar molecules, such as methanol, ethanol and isopropanol, and lose strength as a result.  The potential dangers are that, compared to water, alcohols might be either more strongly absorbed and/or have more of a plasticizing effect on nylon, and thus materially reduce strength of the nylon. Also note that mixtures of solvents can act quite differently than the individual components--i.e., it is possible that there is a synergistic effect.

The absorption and loss of strength is likely reversible, at least when the solvent is water, or we would go crazy over ropes getting wet.

PRRose wrote: The absorption and loss of strength is likely reversible, at least when the solvent is water, or we would go crazy over ropes getting wet.

There are people on this very site that freak out over wet ropes, pee on the rope, blood on the rope.........

Marc801 C wrote:

There are people on this very site that freak out over wet ropes, pee on the rope, blood on the rope.........

actually, pee on the rope has the potential to damage it, although it would likely require a quantity and quality of exposure that is pretty unlikely to happen unless you like to store your rope in a bucket of pee from a dehydrated person. But ultimately, there are people on this site who need to get the stick out of their rectal cavity and spend more time climbing and less time hyperventilating. 

dafuq?