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Best beginner PAS/ rappel setup?


Original Post
Anthony Haamen · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 10

Going to be taking my gf outdoor climbing in couple months, and wanted to get her a pas/ rap extension that’s no fuss and easy to get used to.

I personally use the petzl dual connect adjust and I love it, but figured it might be a bit overly complicated for a newbie.

I’ve considered simply a nylon sling, but was curious if any of you had some helpful ideas. Thanks!

petzl logic · · Montreal, QC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 0

beal dynaconnexion

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

Any PAS will work. Don't overanalyze it. I prefer the Sterling Chain Reactor because it's nylon.

petzl logic · · Montreal, QC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 0

i mean, this topic already has many threads and i did just buy the beal for my gf but this isn’t a case of needing to feel better about a purchase or advocate my decision making. taking short falls on static systems like nylon slings or daisies suck.

it seems like everyone still does this but it just seems silly when companies make much stronger and dynamic solutions like the petzl or beal. 
‘don’t over analyze it’ just sounds like make the same mistake everyone else does when there’s a dead easy and safe solution for beginners with two points to clip anchors and made of rope so it takes a million more falls. plus you can grow into it and add a little prussik to shorten it if you choose and she can add some extra knot skills. 

further reading:
https://rockandice.com/climb-safe/climb-safe-the-dangers-of-short-static-falls/

Anthony Haamen · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 10
petzl logic wrote: i mean, this topic already has many threads and i did just buy the beal for my gf but this isn’t a case of needing to feel better about a purchase or advocate my decision making. taking short falls on static systems like nylon slings or daisies suck.

it seems like everyone still does this but it just seems silly when companies make much stronger and dynamic solutions like the petzl or beal. 
‘don’t over analyze it’ just sounds like make the same mistake everyone else does when there’s a dead easy and safe solution for beginners with two points to clip anchors and made of rope so it takes a million more falls. plus you can grow into it and add a little prussik to shorten it if you choose and she can add some extra knot skills. 

further reading:
https://rockandice.com/climb-safe/climb-safe-the-dangers-of-short-static-falls/

Amazing response. Thank you!

Adam Ronchetti · · Madison, WI · Joined May 2011 · Points: 15

Maybe slightly off topic but I'd recommend lowering over rappelling. You can find tutorial online but the basic premise is that you pass a bite of rope though the anchor (assuming you have a quicklink at the top, don't do this though a bolt), tie a figure 8 on the bite, connect it to you with a locking carabiner, untie your first figure 8 and proceed to clean the route as you lower.

The major benefit being that you're never untied from the rope. I started doing this just because it's a good deal safer than rappelling. Fewer possible failure points and all. 

BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 385

It may be beneficial to show multiple setups so she can find out what works best for her needs. Sometimes you may think you like something until you use it.

I started out with the original Metolius PAS, but ended up hating all the loops. I ended up staying with a simple sling with two overhand knots. It works just dandy. 

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 195

He never said it was for cleaning the anchor.

Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5

There are a bunch of methods that are all safe and functional, and choosing between them is largely a matter of preference. Why not get her started with some research into options, help her understand the various pros and cons, and let her choose what works for her?

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,989

You didn't say whether you would be doing one pitch sport climbing with bomber modern anchors or multipitch or trad with sling tat and shitty aluminum rings

Jeffrey Constine · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 518

You don't need a PAS for anything/except rapping with a Haul bag.

Evan Mann · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 11

Why over complicate things and extend the rappel in the first place? *sounds sassy but is genuine

Anthony Haamen · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 10
Evan Mann wrote: Why over complicate things and extend the rappel in the first place? *sounds sassy but is genuine

That’s a good question! I personally find it WAY more comfortable when extended. Along with that it’s easier to attatch an auto block backup, and to make sure it stays away from the belay device. That’s my personal preference though

Jeffrey K · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0
Evan Mann wrote: Why over complicate things and extend the rappel in the first place? *sounds sassy but is genuine

There are a ton of reasons to use an extended rappel. More redundant, more versatile, etc.. Also not sure it actually complicates anything, it's a quick system to rig.

I use a Metolius PAS, ATC and Prusik for sport raps. Easy and quick system to learn and put together.

PAS girth hitched. ATC extended on first ring of PAS. Prusik tied in auto block and clipped to belay loop. Also allows hands free cleaning when necessary.
petzl logic · · Montreal, QC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 0

just ditch the PAS for something dynamic and you’re good to go. :)

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,989
Jeffrey K wrote:

..I use a Metolius PAS, ATC and Prusik for sport raps. Easy and quick system to learn and put together. ..


If you would just lower, as one should 95% of the time on sport routes, you wouldn't need to haul any of that gear strapped to you harness.

Jeffrey K · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0
M Sprague wrote:

If you would just lower, as one should 95% of the time on sport routes, you wouldn't need to haul any of that gear strapped to you harness.

That's not proper etiquette here so I'll keep rappeling.

I use the rope or nylon sling for trad/multi but a PAS is awfully convenient for sport routes, IMO. Never getting above the anchor in that situation and PAS is always loaded. Safe and fast.
Christian Mason · · Westminster CO · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 156
Evan Mann wrote: Why over complicate things and extend the rappel in the first place? *sounds sassy but is genuine

If you're climbing multi-pitch with a new person, there are a TON of reasons to do this.
https://www.climbing.com/skills/pre-rigging-rappels/

The extension allows a quick autoblock to be tied to the belay loop (NOT the leg loop) where it's load bearing.  This adds maybe 10-15 seconds to the set up, and provides an extra margin of redundancy.

What the article doesn't make super clear, is that besides pre-rigging the rappel, you provide the newer person a Fireman's the entire time you're weighting the system.
As long as they're instructed to keep their extension clear of the rap line there is very little opportunity for them to screw things up. 

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 195
Jeffrey K wrote:

More redundant

Explain.
Serge Smirnov · · Seattle, WA · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 242

With a nylon sling, she may notice that the thing you bought for her is much cheaper than the one you use yourself.  That seems like a greater risk than static falls IMO.

Jeffrey K · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0
Ted Pinson wrote: Explain.

Allows clipping backup to belay loop over leg loop and better clears belay device from the backup. 

There are plenty of safe ways to rappel. The method I mentioned is the one most current guide associations teach to beginners, per OPs request.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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