New DMM Dragonfly cams look like Aliens...

but maybe a bit nicer?

Alex CV wrote: but maybe a bit nicer?

Thought the same thing.  They look exactly like Aliens.  But they do have different lobe materials and design, a different camming angle, and also made by a company with much better production standards and customer service.  I don't know how many comments I've seen from people saying their Aliens got screwed up easily and fixe has dicked around with them getting them replaced or fixed.  DMM has a far better reputation for making good gear that they stand by.  Plus, the small green cam will fit cracks smaller than a 000 C3 will and is STILL rated to 5 kn.  That's pretty sweet.

Cant wait for these

An Alien made by DMM?  

HELL YEAH!

That is Sexy

Seriously stoked!

Info sheet from DMM ​https://dmmclimbing.com/DMMWales/media/Documents/dragonfly-cams.pdf​​​

Now, let's see the offsets.. 

Looks like a mix between the totem basic and the fixe alien. 

Just because they look like Aliens doesn't mean they will perform like them.

Most importantly these have a 'standard' 13.75 camming angle.  Which means that they will perform more poorly in flared cracks which I believe is half the reason why Aliens had their popularity.  Conversely they will grip harder in parallel cracks.  They are closer to Master Cams than other micros.

They look nice and I love DMM.  But my master cams are still serving me very well.  The smallest is an option that few cam manufacturers make though.  (I still use a WC Zero #2) to fit that size range.

The ranges match Metolius sizing almost exactly...
Metolius orange (18.5 - 26.5 mm) = DMM purple (19 - 28.3mm)
Metolius yellow (15.5 - 22.5 mm) = DMM grey (15.1 - 22.5mm)
Metolius blue (12.5 - 18.0 mm) = DMM blue (12.1 - 17.9mm)
Metolius purple (10.0 - 15.0 mm) = DMM gold (10.2 - 15.2mm, 1kN stronger)
Metolius grey (8.5 - 12.0 mm) = DMM red (8.7 - 12.9mm, 1kN stronger)
(no Metolius equivalent to DMM green)

The colors match X4s but those have quite a bit more range, as do C4s and Dragons in the overlapping sizes.

I'm sure these will be very nice but I feel like they missed the boat a little by sticking with 13.75 degrees in a single-axle design. That said, I expect they'll be well made (unlike Fixe Aliens) and you'll actually be able to buy them (unlike Totem Basics). And anyone who avoids the Metolius ULMC because "no thumb loop" should love these.

Noah Yetter wrote: I'm sure these will be very nice but I feel like they missed the boat a little by sticking with 13.75 degrees in a single-axle design.

Would you mind elaborating on this?  Which boat did they miss?  There are clear trade offs by going up or down in camming angle.  And it really depends on they type of rock you are climbing on.

patto wrote:

Would you mind elaborating on this?  Which boat did they miss?  There are clear trade offs by going up or down in camming angle.  And it really depends on they type of rock you are climbing on.

Meaning they're not direct substitutes for Aliens, which I would venture to say is what we all wanted. Put another way, these are arguably a "better" Mastercam, but how many people wanted that, versus how many people wanted a better Alien?

Noah Yetter wrote: The ranges match Metolius sizing almost exactly...
Metolius orange (18.5 - 26.5 mm) = DMM purple (19 - 28.3mm)
Metolius yellow (15.5 - 22.5 mm) = DMM grey (15.1 - 22.5mm)
Metolius blue (12.5 - 18.0 mm) = DMM blue (12.1 - 17.9mm)
Metolius purple (10.0 - 15.0 mm) = DMM gold (10.2 - 15.2mm, 1kN stronger)
Metolius grey (8.5 - 12.0 mm) = DMM red (8.7 - 12.9mm, 1kN stronger)
(no Metolius equivalent to DMM green)

What about the Metolius 000 TCU?  Coincidentally it is also green.

Noah Yetter wrote:

Meaning they're not direct substitutes for Aliens, which I would venture to say is what we all wanted. Put another way, these are arguably a "better" Mastercam, but how many people wanted that, versus how many people wanted a better Alien?

Fair point.  And one I completely agree with.

Though I personally have never wanted an alien let alone a better alien.  Totem cams have managed to cover most of the advantages of aliens without the disadvantages.  The only thing they lack is the smaller sizes.

Take my money DMM!

So it’s a zero, but with the shittier alien-style trigger everybody’s going nuts for? Much like the new friends ripping off camalots, if I wanted an alien, I’d just buy an alien.

It’s not a Zero

Nate Tastic wrote: Is there a list of cams grouped by cam angle which includes intended use cases?

Bigger the camming angle then the bigger the range.  Bigger range is generally preferred.

Bigger the camming angle then the small the normal force.  Lower normal forces means less grip.  This doesn't really matter in course grain textured rock. It means complete failure in smooth gassy rock.

Softer and grippier aluminum lobes can mean better grip, particularly in course grained rock.  But the benefits are harder to quantify here.  Too soft on small lobes and you could have shear failure.  (probably not likely but this did occur with CCH Aliens)

Khoi wrote:

What about the Metolius 000 TCU?  Coincidentally it is also green.

It appears to be discontinued. The TCU page on Metolius' website has a picture but no stats. I do remember that it was rated for less than 5kN.

Jon Rhoderick wrote: It’s not a Zero

It has the exact same cam angle, but the sizes are the in-between sizes of the zeroes (literally, DMM and Wild Country have always used 13.75, and DMM has been doing the machining for Wild Country for at least 20 years now). Still has a doubled sling, still is super floppy. But it does have a shittier trigger than the zeroes. They are not precisely zeroes, but they’re close enough to be compared easily.

I love my zeroes. I snap them up where ever I can find them. In my opinion, they had the best trigger of any small cam. I didn’t mind the cam angle, since I tended to use mixed-brand sets so the range limitation was not an issue for me.