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Tie in knots

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 286
SethG wrote: I don't know why I decided to read this "yet-another-knot-thread," but now that I have waded through it all I want to make a few points.

1. well-established, knowledgeable climbers have the option of choosing to ignore standard safety practices. I have no problem with them doing so. But I do think that when such people PROCLAIM proudly that they ignore them, it has the effect of promoting deviance from the practices, regardless of how many caveats are included.

2. I think a partner check is very important.

3. I think it is much better practice to have everyone tie in (and check) before leaving the ground, than to worry about the chance of some kinkage.

4. The bowline seems like a perfectly good knot, with the appropriate finishing knot. But all of the mental gymnastics on this thread attempting to justify the bowline only serve to demonstrate to my mind that this knot is more prone to error and harder to check than the figure 8. For me, this is enough reason to stick with the figure 8. There are systems we use and test repeatedly as climbers, and which our lives depend upon. Simplicity and universality in these systems is a virtue, I think, and an occasional struggle to untie is worth the trade-off in my opinion.

You've summarized nicely, Seth. Your partner checks add an extra layer of safety.  Even if there are some who have been climbing for decades and have a self check system, you still have added protection.  Don't let a disagreement get you down.  You are on the logical track for more layers of safety.  Keep doing what you are doing, it's clear that it has already paid off, from your comments!

Tyler Newcomb · · Burlington · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 86

In response to the established systems: things change.

We used to climb on pitons.
We used to use hemp rope.
We used to use body belays.
We used to tie rope around our waist.

We used to not use tourniquets on someone severely bleeding.
We used to backboard everyone who cMd out of even a minor car crash.

Just because it's what we've been doing for years doesn't make it right, or in this case the only right system. 

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

I'd call this a sketchy figure-8; the tail is much too short and the knot doesn't appear to be especially tight.  It is common to hear that figure-8's don't need backup knots as long as the tails are long enough, a condition that this knot doesn't meet.  Was there a partner check?  We don't know...

Forrest Halley · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 0

Thanks for the heads up on the Lee locked Bowline. I used it exclusively today in a short outside climb and it was great. I was climbing clean up on most routes. Very easy to come off for the transition to the rappel. I also took a decent fall while setting draws. I was above the last bolt moving to set the anchor and it didn't lock up forever like an eight. No moving at all. I'm happy with it and will continue using it. Fun!
Disclaimer: I'm extremely familiar with a bowline and can tie them right and left handed blindfolded, so this is an easy step for me. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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