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Clean send? Dirty send?


Original Post
Peter J · · Davis, CA · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 105

So imagine you're halfway up a route and you encounter a small ledge, you mantle and proceed into the moves above, but slip just above the ledge and slide down onto the ledge... you slide/fall far enough that your hands pop off before your feet hit the ledge and regain your balance... Either way, you're on lead (last bolt is below the ledge) and you don't weight the rope. You continue to the top without further event, did you send? Or didn't you? Why?

Igor Chained · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 70

Totally botched it. Get lowered and try it again pal.

Alex Lombardo · · Davis, CA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 115

Typical Peter J chuffer move. Unless you put that ledge in on lead, it's aid.

kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 350

Spending too much time climbing at Lover's Leap are ya?

Eric Stern · · Boulder, CO/ Tacoma Washington · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 40
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

if you do not weight the rope or grab gear its all good. 

kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 350
Eric Stern wrote: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/111836594/did-i-on-sight?page=1 Past discussion

Lol that's a long list of users that I'd be pissed at if we were arguing sending ethics at the campfire. 

mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120

If there's a voice in your head that doubts your cleanliness, you probably need to go wash up.

Peter J · · Davis, CA · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 105
Nick Goldsmith wrote: if you do not weight the rope or grab gear its all good. 

could it still be considered an onsight? what if you fell before the first piece of protection and the ledge you slid down to was the belay ledge?

Kevin MP · · Redmond, OR · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 357
kevin deweese wrote: Spending too much time climbing at Lover's Leap are ya?

Haha first time at the Leap, I put my partner (now my wife) on lead on Knapsack Crack. She whipped with no gear and slowly slid back down to the ledge. Then proceeded to onsight.

Hobo Greg · · My Van · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 165

A fall without weighting the rope is just a downo.

Peter J · · Davis, CA · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 105

What if you fall while free soloing, but finish the climb afterwards? Is it an onsight or a redpoint? Did James Lucas redpoint that climb, or did he actually onsight it? Do you have to finish the climb within a certain period of time in order to maintain the onsight after a slip on lead that doesn't result in weighting any form of protection?

Floyd Eggers · · Kennewick, WA · Joined Mar 2018 · Points: 242

In Comps: "A competitor shall be deemed to be unsuccessful in completing an attempt on a route if s/he: a) Falls or weights the rope; b) Makes use of areas, holds or features demarcated as out of bounds – refer to rule 5.7.8; c) Uses the side edges or the tope edges of the wall for climbing; d) Touches the ground with any part of the body after having started; e) Uses any artificial aid. "
If competition rules say you were fine, your fine. If the ledge was off route, you in turn were off route. 

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

I could care less about competitions. real climbing outdoors, any natural feature  is in bounds and a fall only counts if you weight the rope , grab gear or deck.  slideing back to a stance without peeling off is called a good save. 

Zane Winter · · Kansas City, MO · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 207

God, is this what we're debating now???

rafael · · Berkeley, CA · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 50

dude, all your prize money just got rescinded. In fact the send police are filing a report, and are going to revoke your lead belay card

Nate Tastic · · 88,4,108,50, 80 · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 10

We have to see the helmet cam replay to make the final call.

David Kerkeslager · · New Paltz, NY · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 108

I don't care at all about labels. Labels are for communicating, but they're sort of arbitrary, and I don't base my goals on them.

Personally, I my goals are about doing things in a skilled, controlled fashion. I personally wouldn't count the above as a clean onsight for myself, because I lost control of the situation. But if you want to call it a clean onsight, I won't respect you less for it.

Likewise if I started losing my grip, and hopped in a controlled fashion back to the ledge without weighting the rope, I'd count that for myself.

Matt Kuehl · · Las Vegas · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,570

Depends on how much fun you're having

Floyd Eggers · · Kennewick, WA · Joined Mar 2018 · Points: 242

I would consult with a climbing lawyer, this is going to require judicial proceedings. Maybe Judge Judy will take this on.

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

some of my best sends my feet looked like the road runner peeling out with smoke coming off the rubber but somehow I made it up the thing ….

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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