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is mountain project growing? what about climbing??


Original Post
jason oliphant · · warren, Pa · Joined Mar 2018 · Points: 20

I've spent a little while lurking and I see alot of jokes and some trollspeak.

that doesn't seem like "growth" to me.  but I've HEARD that actually climbing is becoming a lot more popular.  espacially in places with great rock in the EastCoast (gunks/RRG) and West. (bishop and other stuff an Eastern n00b like me hasn't bothered to memorize).

anyways I'm curious.

in my area.  watching water boil and puddles drying up is more popular than climbing.  so I'm not going to know, how busy the climbing scene from here.

in hot places, are their parking issues and crowds?  curious:

---
and perhaps the Sport of climbing is growing but the website is not.

that would be ok, too. though it would be interesting to know if like only 1 in 20 of most of the classic climbs in some of these well documented places is on here.

splitclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 6

growing but not growing up ;)

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

climbing friend,

yes it is growing! terrifying and dangerous noob everywhere! ATC and PAS thong! blasting trance music at your crag with "well behaved" dog ("don't worry, he's actually really nice")  and babies!

rafael · · Berkeley, CA · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 50
jason oliphant wrote: I've spent a little while lurking and I see alot of jokes and some trollspeak.

that doesn't seem like "growth" to me.  but I've HEARD that actually climbing is becoming a lot more popular.  espacially in places with great rock in the EastCoast (gunks/RRG) and West. (bishop and other stuff an Eastern n00b like me hasn't bothered to memorize).

anyways I'm curious.

in my area.  watching water boil and puddles drying up is more popular than climbing.  so I'm not going to know, how busy the climbing scene from here.

in hot places, are their parking issues and crowds?  curious:

---
and perhaps the Sport of climbing is growing but the website is not.

that would be ok, too. though it would be interesting to know if like only 1 in 20 of most of the classic climbs in some of these well documented places is on here.

theres a recent long thread https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114304733/indian-creek-psa

Covers much of the issues, parking (a bit), human turds and environmental degradation. Doesnt go into lines at the base of crags, dogs, damage to the rock from many climbers, but these topics are pretty important as well.
John Clark · · San Francisco, CA · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 372
Aleks Zebastian wrote: climbing friend,

yes it is growing! terrifying and dangerous noob everywhere! ATC and PAS thong! blasting trance music at your crag with "well behaved" dog ("don't worry, he's actually really nice")  and babies!

Are the babies well behaved though? And will I get lock jaw if they bite me?


As for OP, I would say that trad is getting more popular, but as Aleks says, dangerous noob everywhere. I pass people on routes probably 2-3 times a month using an anchor that they are not weighting and probably would collapse if you placed their future funeral bouquet on it.
jason oliphant · · warren, Pa · Joined Mar 2018 · Points: 20

so Beyond environmental damage; (ty rafael)

people doing unwise and dangerous things is another concern.

hmmm

makes sense. for example I know nothing about Trad.  i suppose if I had more money than brains I could buy a rack and go around with only youtube training; looking for 'adventure'

hence the first part of my question.  what about THIS site.  isn't that Exactly what this site is suppose to do- connect veterans that know with n00bs that don't?  do you think this website helps DO that, or not? perhaps; over the anonymity of the internet- its just too much to expect.

after all  if even the pro's can't stop themselves from trolling....

David Kerkeslager · · New Paltz, NY · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 124

This conversation looks to be another conversation about trolling, but as an aside:

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell." --Edward Abbey

A bigger community is not necessarily a better one. The MP owners (REI) have an imperative to grow MP because ostensibly that makes them more money. But as users, I don't think we have much reason to care if MP grows--if anything, I'd rather MP stayed small. I recognize the names of a lot of the folks here, and have a reasonable idea of who says useful stuff and who is a troll. The same is not true of (for example) the climbing subreddit, which has grown commensurate to Reddit and climbing.

John Clark · · San Francisco, CA · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 372
jason oliphant wrote: so Beyond environmental damage; (ty rafael)

people doing unwise and dangerous things is another concern.

hmmm

makes sense. for example I know nothing about Trad.  i suppose if I had more money than brains I could buy a rack and go around with only youtube training; looking for 'adventure'

hence the first part of my question.  what about THIS site.  isn't that Exactly what this site is suppose to do- connect veterans that know with n00bs that don't?  do you think this website helps DO that, or not? perhaps; over the anonymity of the internet- its just too much to expect.

after all  if even the pro's can't stop themselves from trolling....

Good point. I haven't found any mentors via MP, but if you go hang out in trad areas and ask to tag along with people, that works sometimes. Just don't be a dick and take the learning opportunity seriously if someone takes you with. I had a guy I met in the parking lot answer his cell phone halfway up the last pitch one time, which made me not want to pick up rando beginners  as much.


And there are excellent books out there if you want to learn on your own. "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Don't teach a man to fish and feed yourself. He's a grown man and fishing's not that hard." applies as well

https://www.amazon.com/Climbing-Anchors-Climb-John-Long/dp/0762782072
https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Guide-Manual-Comprehensive-Reference/dp/1493025147/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6F1498WRPGPSA750PZ0Y
https://www.amazon.com/Trad-Climbers-Bible-How-Climb/dp/0762783729/ref=pd_sim_14_16?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0762783729&pd_rd_r=R97AV4D6Q4ED3ZCE53YT&pd_rd_w=afHg3&pd_rd_wg=KftTS&psc=1&refRID=R97AV4D6Q4ED3ZCE53YT
Kemper Brightman · · Tucson · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 2,056
nathanael · · Riverside, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 354
jason oliphant wrote

makes sense. for example I know nothing about Trad.  i suppose if I had more money than brains I could buy a rack and go around with only youtube training; looking for 'adventure'

hence the first part of my question.  what about THIS site.  isn't that Exactly what this site is suppose to do- connect veterans that know with n00bs that don't?  do you think this website helps DO that, or not? perhaps; over the anonymity of the internet- its just too much to expect.

All the questions and issues about actual climbing have already been answered and discussed if people have the time and patience to search the old threads. All that's left is to troll, discuss current events, and occasionally discuss new gear as it's released. 

jason oliphant · · warren, Pa · Joined Mar 2018 · Points: 20
David Kerkeslager wrote: This conversation looks to be another conversation about trolling, but as an aside:

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell." --Edward Abbey

A bigger community is not necessarily a better one. The MP owners (REI) have an imperative to grow MP because ostensibly that makes them more money. But as users, I don't think we have much reason to care if MP grows--if anything, I'd rather MP stayed small. I recognize the names of a lot of the folks here, and have a reasonable idea of who says useful stuff and who is a troll. The same is not true of (for example) the climbing subreddit, which has grown commensurate to Reddit and climbing.

yeah, sorry

I really don't want it to be about trolling. so much.  I'm really satisfied with the answers. ty

for myself, I still hope to make local connections.  seems to me in regards to climbing- seeing it done first hand is far better than trying to go from a book, youtube vid,etc, etc.
 
it would also Be nice to see climbing become a local thing!  but I understand the draw of bigger & better rock
Everett · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 25
David Kerkeslager wrote: This conversation looks to be another conversation about trolling, but as an aside:

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell." --Edward Abbey

A bigger community is not necessarily a better one. The MP owners (REI) have an imperative to grow MP because ostensibly that makes them more money. But as users, I don't think we have much reason to care if MP grows--if anything, I'd rather MP stayed small. I recognize the names of a lot of the folks here, and have a reasonable idea of who says useful stuff and who is a troll. The same is not true of (for example) the climbing subreddit, which has grown commensurate to Reddit and climbing.

Does REI (a co-op) actually have a legal mandate to increase profits?

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Everett wrote:

Does REI (a co-op) actually have a legal mandate to increase profits?

Depends on how they crafted their co-op rules, and don't confuse a co-op with a non-profit organization.

Edit to add: I'd guess the answer or pointer to the answer lies somewhere in one of the links on this page: https://www.rei.com/about-rei
...but I don't have the time to find it right now.
Nicholas Gillman · · Las Vegas · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 327
jason oliphant wrote: I've spent a little while lurking and I see alot of jokes and some trollspeak.

that doesn't seem like "growth" to me.  but I've HEARD that actually climbing is becoming a lot more popular.  espacially in places with great rock in the EastCoast (gunks/RRG) and West. (bishop and other stuff an Eastern n00b like me hasn't bothered to memorize).

anyways I'm curious.

in my area.  watching water boil and puddles drying up is more popular than climbing.  so I'm not going to know, how busy the climbing scene from here.

in hot places, are their parking issues and crowds?  curious:

---
and perhaps the Sport of climbing is growing but the website is not.

that would be ok, too. though it would be interesting to know if like only 1 in 20 of most of the classic climbs in some of these well documented places is on here.

I think the stat has been posted that the vast majority of people who visit the site don’t ever go to the forums (someone correct me if I’m wrong) so I wouldn’t use what you see on the forums as a metric of how much the site is growing or not.

In terms of the data base I think in it has grown and will grow pretty steadily. I only really update Nevada /California / Utah as far as my areas go for the MP app and there always seems to be a decent size chunk of new stuff. 

It would be interesting to see some kinda stat if new submissions fell off once REI aquired the site. I seem to remember a lot of people saying not only would they no longer submit anything but they were going to go about pulling photo and beta they had already submitted .. which when you factor in any given area probably only has a handful of people really working at submitting / refining info could have been a major hit.
Patrik · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 30
jason oliphant wrote:


for myself, I still hope to make local connections.  seems to me in regards to climbing- seeing it done first hand is far better than trying to go from a book, youtube vid,etc, etc.
 

Not true. There are very, very few mistakes in printed how-to books on climbing (at least the ones still in print). Teaming up with random people at the crag (or on MP), you will absolutely encounter really dangerous ideas/procedures/mistakes. 

On the other hand, some people learn better (or more easily) by seeing/doing than reading. The main trouble is how to verify that the guy showing things really knows what he's talking about. And I've met people bragging about their AMGA certification still making nonsense suggestions.

Ty Gilroy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0
jason oliphant wrote: so Beyond environmental damage; (ty rafael)

people doing unwise and dangerous things is another concern.

hmmm

makes sense. for example I know nothing about Trad.  i suppose if I had more money than brains I could buy a rack and go around with only youtube training; looking for 'adventure'

hence the first part of my question.  what about THIS site.  isn't that Exactly what this site is suppose to do- connect veterans that know with n00bs that don't?  do you think this website helps DO that, or not? perhaps; over the anonymity of the internet- its just too much to expect.

after all  if even the pro's can't stop themselves from trolling....

Trad isnt rocket science. Myself and many, many others I know started trad climbing after reading freedom of the hills and watching youtube videos.   Were lucky to have so many resources at our disposal. How do you think the generations learned before the internet? Just go out and figure it out. You cant wait around for someone to mentor you because it may never happen

ViperScale . · · McMurdo Station, AQ · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 240
Ty Gilroy wrote:

Trad isnt rocket science. Myself and many, many others I know started trad climbing after reading freedom of the hills and watching youtube videos.   Were lucky to have so many resources at our disposal. How do you think the generations learned before the internet? Just go out and figure it out. You cant wait around for someone to mentor you because it may never happen

Hmm books and other people before the internet... at least that is how I learned and the internet was around before I even started to learn.

Well I guess I technically started on my own. I taught myself how to climb out of the crib and my parents said my older brother never climbed out until I was born... so I guess I was teaching people to climb before I even could even talk or walk.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Ty Gilroy wrote:

How do you think the generations learned before the internet? Just go out and figure it out. You cant wait around for someone to mentor you because it may never happen

Actually the vast majority of climbers in pre-net days learned from mentors/instructors who were safe. A huge number of us got our start in college outdoor clubs and not from just "going out and figuring it out".


Ty Gilroy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0
ViperScale . wrote:

Hmm books and other people before the internet... at least that is how I learned and the internet was around before I even started to learn.

Well I guess I technically started on my own. I taught myself how to climb out of the crib and my parents said my older brother never climbed out until I was born... so I guess I was teaching people to climb before I even could even talk or walk.

Wow! Pre walk sends, can you teach me to climb please?

John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,075
Marc801 C wrote: Actually the vast majority of climbers in pre-net days learned from mentors/instructors who were safe. A huge number of us got our start in college outdoor clubs and not from just "going out and figuring it out".


I may have discovered where "climbing" got messed up......

As soon as I get a time machine I'll go back and prevent this from happening........insert evil laugh..... ;)
Rob T · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 10
John Barritt wrote:

I may have discovered where "climbing" got messed up......

As soon as I get a time machine I'll go back and prevent this from happening........insert evil laugh..... ;)

Make sure you make a stop in 2000 to erase the early climbingmoab and climbingboulder source code. 

Results would be even better. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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