Mountain Project Logo

Survey on sexual harassment and sexual assault in climbing


J Squared · · santa barbara, CA · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0
señdera la reina wrote:

How is it that it works against me?  If I am not convincing men then it does not matter because maybe men do not listen anyway. But now there is almost all men in this discussion and they are talking about elephants in the Women's Forum but calling the oppression of women nonsense. This is why there is a struggle.


People take the word mansplaining and laugh, they say "ha ha" it is just a silly word. But these things hurt women. You look on the fist page of this discussion and there are more than one woman saying that they are the victim of mansplaining so many times and they get many likes from women who support them and share their struggle. You see the big number next to the thumbs. And now many pages later we see where it leads because women are able to talk and now they are talking about PTSD and sexual slavery because that is where goes. It starts with mansplaining and leads to these things far worse. This is why we stop it where it begins.

it works against you because it appears you're not even reading correctly.


a question was posited "what other species invest heavy time into raising the young"
a WOMAN responded with an answer about "elephants"
so some people attempted to respect the answer of the woman and respond, engaging her answer.

you come in and say "the problem is that the men are still not listening"

THIS IS WHY THERE IS STRUGGLE.

you DO see "large numbers of thumbs on the posts of victims sharing their story" BUT, those thumbs are anonymous so you have zero idea what the ratio of men/women who clicked the thumbs actually are.  so what good do they even do to support your claim?

you would think, specifically because this IS the womens forum, that women would be free to respond with posts that keep the thread "on-topic"
so why have most of the women given up on doing that?
there's only 40-50 unique respondents in this thread. and only 10-20 that responded more than twice. it's not like there's any kind of mob in this small sample size. what warrants just giving up on engaging?

here, is a woman articulating the issue..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrscwJYO8G8  and another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vagVf5cf-V0
señdera la reina · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2017 · Points: 0
J Squared wrote: 
you would think, specifically because this IS the womens forum, that women would be free to respond with posts that keep the thread "on-topic"
so why have most of the women given up on doing that?
there's only 40-50 unique respondents in this thread. and only 10-20 that responded more than twice. it's not like there's any kind of mob in this small sample size. what warrants just giving up on engaging?

Of course the funny thing is how the response is mansplaining. The survey is the topic here, not elk and elephants.

This discussion was on topic on the fist page where women reported harassment and mansplaining like the survey asked them to do.    These were respected women in this place who get many likes and receive praise from admins.  Why would they report these things if it was not important to women?


Idaho Bob · · McCall, ID · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 450

Listen carefully, speak softly, treat all persons with respect.  That goes a long way in interpersonal relationships.  Accept that your beliefs and opinions may not be accepted universally.  

Nate Doyle · · Sierra Foothills · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 39
Idaho Bob wrote: Listen carefully, speak softly, treat all persons with respect.  That goes a long way in interpersonal relationships.  Accept that your beliefs and opinions may not be accepted universally.  
Or even facts.
Christian · · Casa do Cacete · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486

Canada mansplains

Twentysomething wonder when

Handmaid is for them

J Squared · · santa barbara, CA · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0
señdera la reina wrote:

Of course the funny thing is how the response is mansplaining. The survey is the topic here, not elk and elephants.

This discussion was on topic on the fist page where women reported harassment and mansplaining like the survey asked them to do.    These were respected women in this place who get many likes and receive praise from admins.  Why would they report these things if it was not important to women?


are you continuing to blatantly ignore the fact that the subject of Elephants was brought up by Old Lady H, who IS a respected woman in this place?

your side stepping is not funny.  do you REALLY think that after 22 pages of replies, that "the survey is the topic"
clearly "the topic" encompasses far more than just "the survey".   surely "the topic" is decided and guided by those who continue to seriously engage in discussion.

mansplaining is when a man is completely dismissive of a womans input.
some men tried to engage OLH on her input.. and you call it mansplaining.

what. the. fuck.
Ryan Swanson · · Pepedidnothingwrong, freejg · Joined Jan 2018 · Points: 50
Nate Tastic wrote: Or even facts.

Facts are universal. People think that opinions (they agree with) are synonymous with truth however. 

Nate Doyle · · Sierra Foothills · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 39
Ryan Swanson wrote:

Facts are universal. People think that opinions (they agree with) are synonymous with truth however.

Facts aren't universally accepted as such. And people think that beliefs (their own) are synonymous with truth as well.
J Squared · · santa barbara, CA · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0
Ryan Swanson wrote:

Facts are universal. People think that opinions (they agree with) are synonymous with truth however. 

this one thinks he can bring up "truth" in one sentence and have it mean something to other people. (or maybe he doesn't care about the meanings that other people derive)

"facts are universal"

well ok..  every single thing that exists, in the universe, is a fact.
when you take the level of analysis deep enough, you find there are an infinite number of facts.

how does your idea help in any way to facilitate discussion between conscious beings who are motivated by both rational and emotional drives.
how does you saying "well, that's just, like, your opinion, man" offer anything unique to the matter at hand?

p.s.  oh please, wise one.  delineate the difference between truth and fact.  those 2 words exist as separate entities for a reason.  for reason its-self.
many generations of Pragmatists already hashed that idea out quite extensively.
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 23,285
J Squared wrote:


mansplaining is when a man is completely dismissive of a womans input.


The above, as you had put it, is a bigoted and sexist use of the word, whereas the motivation is automatically presumed to be gender oriented.

What if the input being dismissed/rejected was nonsense and the man would have dismissed it just the same if a guy said it?
That's not man anything, that's just not engaging in someone else's agenda and fiction and has nothing to do with gender.
That's just ignoring/correcting/disabusing someone of their misinformation and who the F cares what gender someone identifies as?

Like I said, It validates the point that the term 'Mansplaining' in and of itself is sexist absent any proof or affirmation that an action was motivated by gender.
Please stop using it.  It is bigoted.

J Squared · · santa barbara, CA · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0
Tony B wrote:


The above, as you had put it, is a bigoted and sexist use of the word, whereas the motivation is automatically presumed to be gender oriented.

What if the input being dismissed/rejected was nonsense and the man would have dismissed it just the same if a guy said it?
That's not man anything, that's just not engaging in someone else's agenda and fiction and has nothing to do with gender.
That's just ignoring/correcting/disabusing someone of their misinformation and who the F cares what gender someone identifies as?

Like I said, It validates the point that the term 'Mansplaining' in and of itself is sexist absent any proof or affirmation that an action was motivated by gender.
Please stop using it.  It is bigoted.

uh do you think I support the idea of mansplaining?  do you think that your explanation here will actually get listened to by those who do use the term constantly?

I tried to phrase it in a way where my post won't get deleted. and where it seems like i'm responding to her issue.  I was attempting to describe "mansplaining" as "Sendera" saw it, against the reality of the responses in question.

I would have said the exact same shit that you just said... except I was attempting to respond to "sendera" (who has identified as a woman in a couple other threads)  ... but thank you for saying it.  I just wonder how far you'll get with attempting to apply simple logic to this place which is largely not based on simple logic.

it's also literally impossible to hold a group accountable, or responsible... (be it, race, gender, or any other identity politics game)  without destroying the society in the process
señdera la reina · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2017 · Points: 0
Tony B wrote:


The above, as you had put it, is a bigoted and sexist use of the word, whereas the motivation is automatically presumed to be gender oriented.

What if the input being dismissed/rejected was nonsense and the man would have dismissed it just the same if a guy said it?
That's not man anything, that's just not engaging in someone else's agenda and fiction and has nothing to do with gender.
That's just ignoring/correcting/disabusing someone of their misinformation and who the F cares what gender someone identifies as?

Like I said, It validates the point that the term 'Mansplaining' in and of itself is sexist absent any proof or affirmation that an action was motivated by gender.
Please stop using it.  It is bigoted.

Respected women are using the word. There is a post with more than 60 likes that uses the word right there on the first page. Are you saying there are so many people liking a word that is bigoted?

It is an important word and that is why women use it when they are reporting on sexual harassment, assault and slavery. It is part of the spectrum.

The survey is important to women and climbers and is why the Access Fund is supporting.    How many women do not send because of so much mansplaining in climbing?  I fear there are so many.  But through the work of a renowned victimologist we can learn how bad is the problem.
Eric · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 10
señdera la reina wrote:

Respected women are using the word. There is a post with more than 60 likes that uses the word right there on the first page. Are you saying there are so many people liking a word that is bigoted?

Great logic there.

If I can find 60 people that like using the word [insert terrible slur here], then we're good?  No.  Let's grow up here.

And mansplaining is without any doubt s stupid and dangerous term to employ.  When you shut down a conversation/point due to the fact it came from a man, you are declaring that the person's viewpoint is to be disregarded based upon immutable characteristics.  

Is the society we want?  Do we want equivalent terms like "womansplaining" or "[race]splaining"?  Do we really want an endgame where we judge speech based on the identity of the SPEAKER?

Stop with the endless identity politics.  Attack the message OR even the individual.  But attacking group identity is so naively short-sighted, so illiberal, that I really cannot believe this is where some number of folks want to steer society.
Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 873
señdera la reina wrote:

Of course the funny thing is how the response is mansplaining. The survey is the topic here, not elk and elephants.

This discussion was on topic on the fist page where women reported harassment and mansplaining like the survey asked them to do.    These were respected women in this place who get many likes and receive praise from admins.  Why would they report these things if it was not important to women?


Apparently this woman lost your respect? Or, I'm no longer regarded as female because I'm quite willing to converse with others?

Yes. I brought up elephants. I've also brought up my own personal history, with (I think) more than a few respectful and thoughtful posts. Never intending anything on my end but to contribute to, and move forward these important conversations.

Please consider a less divisive approach. For myself, I am torn about someone who is only in this (protected) thread, with what appears to be an attitude that is combative. I also have no certainty you are not a troll, but, I'm known to converse with all comers, giving them the benefit of the doubt. Except when I lose my temper.

Re "mansplaining", yes it is a biased term, although it is rapidly becoming a non gendered term for some of us. For myself, it can simply be any idiot who decides I am clueless and starts offering unneeded, unwanted, and unwelcome advice about....just about anything. I'm kinda stubborn. ;-)

Re elephants, I stick to my assertions, you are free to have other opinions. The bulls are kicked out of that maternal group (I don't remember at what age), but the females are given guidance, well, forever, or until they are a rspected elder or matriarch in their own right.

Nuclear families are a recent invention, and are not necessarily the best way to raise children. Being farmed out to another nuclear family so the parents can get a break, is not at all the same as having multiple generations in the same house, and, all your relatives just up the road on the neighboring farms. Everyone pitching in for harvests,  lots of alternative people raising children when parents aren't up to the task. Go back preagriculture? Other women may have even nursed that newborn, and let me get some sleep.

Gee. Kinda like those elephant herds....

Best, OLH
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Women's Forum
Post a Reply to "Survey on sexual harassment and sexual assault…"

There is ZERO tolerance for being a jerk in the Women's Forum.

This topic is locked and closed to new replies.