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Climbing with a somewhat disabled guy


Original Post
Odd L · · Trondheim, NO · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0

Hi,

without too much background information about me or my partner, how risky would you say it is to go climbing with a person who basically only has 1 functioning leg and a bit of dead weight?

My GF has no problem with me doing semi-sketchy stuff, but in this particular instance she's wildly opposed to me going climbing with this guy.

As for grades... We're talking stuff like 5.11-5.12. He can't lead it, but I can rather comfortably. His range is in the 5.9-5.10-land.

Am I being irresponsible and selfish for going climbing a route in 5.11-5.12-range with this guy?

Edit: because I used the term 'moderate' and I'm an idiot. 

Forrset Pials · · New York, NYC · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0

If youre leading and the gear is good i dont really see an issue...

Odd L · · Trondheim, NO · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0

The main risk factor, as far as I can tell, is something happening to me. I mean, I don't know this route at all so it's not exactly like I have any clue about the gear, nor the rescue potential...

ViperScale . · · McMurdo Station, AQ · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 240

Is this a multi-pitch? I have climbed plenty of long multi-pitch climbs with people who could not lead any of the pitches. Just make sure they know enough to get everyone down or get help if you get incapacitated during a pitch (means being able to at least lower you so you don't die from hanging unconscious). It may also be a long annoying day if they can't make it up any pitch and you are having to haul them up but depends on what you are climbing, just because something is rated 5.12 doesn't make the entire climb 5.12 moves.

climber pat · · Las Cruces, NM · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 215

Off the cuff, I would say yes, you are being irresponsible.  5.12 is impossible for a 5.9-10 climber.  At the very least you will have to be pulling him through all the 5.11 and harder sections.  He will not enjoy that at all.  You will likely have to retreat.  If this is true trad route, that will mean leaving gear behind too.

I do not think it is significantly more dangerous than climbing something within your friends capability.  It is just that both of you are not likely to have a good time.  At the least equip him with a pair of jumars and aiders so he can jug the hard sections. And be prepared to haul him through hard sections too.  

If you want better advice, what route are you thinking of doing with you friend?

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,795

Nobody benefits from seconding "moderate trad". Better to kick it up to 5.13.

Mike Hazard · · Ballston Lake, NY · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 280

Damn... since when is 5.12 moderate trad? 

Jake G. · · Maryland · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 0

Where the heck are you people from!!? Moderate 5.11/12? What does that even mean? On the east coast that's a hard frecken climb. Are our grades really that stiff compared to the rest of the countries? 

Ryan Swanson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2018 · Points: 50
Jake G. wrote: Where the heck are you people from!!? Moderate 5.11/12? What does that even mean? On the east coast that's a hard frecken climb. Are our grades really that stiff compared to the rest of the countries? 

It's a 5.9 in my gym.

La MoMoface · · Arvada, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 60

Grades aside....not a biggie at all. PM me if you'd like to discuss in more detail.

C Archibolt · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 871

Troll. 

La MoMoface · · Arvada, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 60

This guys just sent his first .13 this spring, then promptly sent two more.  He does wear a prosthetic, Urko is a Spanish climber who doesn't wear a prosthetic and also climbs 5....hard. If your buddy isn't strong enough to follow you, that's one thing, for sure...but it's likely not because of his leg. 

T G · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 1

The advice offered above that you're being irresponsible is nonsense. Listen to La MoMoFace - she knows. You might also reach out to Paradox Sports in Boulder - I'm sure they'd be happy to discuss the work they do: http://www.paradoxsports.org

Lena chita · · OH · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 735

Pretty sure it's a troll. but I'll say this anyway...

I don't think his leg function is a problem. but I do think that taking someone who can climb 5.9-5.10 on a 5.12 multipitch trad is generally not a good idea, regardless of whether they have two legs, or or none. how many pitches harder than 5.9 are there?  is he going to jumar all the pitches he can't do? Does he have experience with jumaring? You only need one functioning leg to jumar, but it's hell of a lot of work.

If he asked you to take him on this specific climb, has practiced his jumaring/aiding, and has the strength/endurance to do this climb with aiding all the pitches he can't climb, then it's fine. But if you are taking him on this climb because YOU want to do this climb, then you shouldn't be an asshole, and you should climb this route with someone who can do 5.12 climbing, and take this guy on a more-appropriate-for his-skill-level route that he would enjoy.

La MoMoface · · Arvada, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 60
Lena chita wrote: Pretty sure it's a troll. but I'll say this anyway...

Maybe! But I'm feeding it in case someone real reads it and thinks 'Oh! I never thought of that - it probably IS a bad idea to bring a gimpy dude climbing!'

Suburban Roadside · · Abovetraffic on Hudson · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 1,464

Feeding time? it is pouring rain,

))Odd L · 2 hours ago · Trondheim, NO · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0((  - ][ - What is Trondhiem?[ eh? ( Not to mention; NO )

So

Sure, as they say before every performance , "Go break a leg" . . . . Errr, Hmm, wait, think on that for a moment.....

Odd L wrote: Hi,

without too much background information about me or my partner, how risky would you say it is to go climbing with a person who basically only has 1 functioning leg and a bit of dead weight?

My GF has no problem with me doing semi-sketchy stuff,

 but 

in this particular instance she's wildly opposed to me going climbing with this guy.
the rest is spray intended to draw the ire of "Locals Only"


As for grades... We're talking relatively moderate trad here, 5.11-5.12. He can't lead it, but I can rather comfortably. His range is in the 5.9-5.10-land.

Am I being irresponsible and selfish for going climbing a route in 5.11-5.12-range with this guy?

Time to add some facts or this troll dies 



HaHa I resemble the following remark!

the schmuck · moments ago · Albuquerque, NM ·
A friend who has climbed 5.12 trad , recently stared going out with an older guy who is good at 5.8 or so.
 They make it work by having the older dude jug the hard pitches.
the schmuck · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 110

A friend who has climbed 5.12 trad , recently started going out with an older guy who is good at 5.8 or so. They make it work by having the older dude jug the hard pitches.

Odd L · · Trondheim, NO · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0

Ack. Ok, sorry, I very much did not intend to troll. I'm european and the grade conversion is probably messing things up, I wanted to stay in Yosemite grades and set just a grade range and didn't think too much about the numbers. Fuck the numbers, what I am saying is this:

- He has his leg intact, but has nerve damage so no real sensation in the foot, meaning that he places his foot, engages his hip muscles and just hopes for the best.
- He wanted to do this route and suggested it. It has one pitch of 7a+ [which I believe is around 5.12 but I think grade conversion is hard and weird and everyone should be using the british system, but that's a different debate innit], the rest is like 7a, 6c and a bunch of 6b-stuff. Anyway, the point is: there is stuff he probably can't climb, but he's the kind of guy that will try his very, very hardest anyway. The fact remains though: I will be rope gun.
- This would be on sight for both of us.
- I know how to rig pulleys, do simul abseiling, in general fix shit if stuff goes bad. He knows how to jumar and could pull himself up if required but I don't think he's too good with buddy rescues or similar.

I am more interested in the core risk debate here. My GF is saying that he is being somewhat selfish and sort of 'exploiting' me, and that he should consider easier stuff. I can see this point, but I don't feel it. And who am I to shit on what he wants to climb... at the same time, I generally don't want the GF to worry about my shenanigans.

Also to note: we had one incident last time where he fell 5-6 meters on the jesus piece because his foot doesn't work well on slabs. This has lead to some concern.

@Michael: Trondheim is a tiny town roughly in the middle of Norway, meridian-wise.

Matt Himmelstein · · Orange, California · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 135

Taking him up is just like taking anyone else up who can't climb well at the grade.  You risk having to bail.  You are comfortable rigging up a bail, but if you are hurt, is he comfortable?  Is this a place where help is easy to summon or are you guys on your own?

In the end, unless you think you might need his physical help to walk out should you be injured, his leg has nothing to do with this.  It would be silly for a strong friend to take me on a multipitch 5.12 because I can't climb that grade, and unless we wanted to make it an epic day of me aiding my way through the cruxes, it would be pointless.  But it would not be dangerous for either of us because I know what I am doing on the rock.  If he knows what he is doing, it is not any more dangerous than any other situation, but that does not make it a reasonable plan.

Suburban Roadside · · Abovetraffic on Hudson · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 1,464

Edit:

I love Norway , ! I cant believe I missed that!

Please think of including 2-3 fully able people to the party

plan on spending some time convincing these others of your overwhelming  competency/compatibly

This is in case "the stuff goes bad", :Shtt,Hits The Fan' -  is a saying  (hope you do not) need to deal, but if you do numbers can = survival.

So you are talking about taking the risk to go,

 get out there, have it all go well, no problems,?

it is a near impossibility to take the precautions one would need to, to provide this as a proffesional guide service.

 The need to look at the worst case scenario is a manditory step in planning imho,

What if you as rope-gun pitch off and get hurt? where is your back up plan?
Can either of you carry the other for the distances you are planning to cover?

J Squared · · santa barbara, CA · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0

it's not entirely clear from your post if this is your first time climbing outdoors with this guy..

might want to do some things that are little less limit-pushing ...  if you have to come and ask.. "is it ok and safe?"  what that really means is you haven't spent enough time climbing with the particular person at lower grades / shorter routes to have a feel for making that judgement yourself... which is what you should be doing if you're genuinely concerned about safety and trust issues.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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