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How not to die!


Fehim Hasecic · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 115
James Schroeder wrote:

This is semantics. You guys will talk past each other. Your argument breaks down to:

"Because you chose to be in a given place at a given time; there is no such thing as objective risk."

Which has some validity. However, we can all admit that once we choose to enter a given environment; there are some things that are beyond our control. Examples include rock fall, other people creating a hazard, unforecasted weather events, etc.

Like if someone is top roping and you decide to lead over them, because no time to waste 

Franck Vee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 70
Tradiban wrote:

Not to mention people getting lowered off the end of a rope!

... or rappelling off the end, or putting just one strand into their rappelling device.

Rappelling off instead of lowering is just dumb, period, I'm pretty sure we had settle that debate already long ago (saved for a few dummies perhaps).


*Sound of a grenade lobbed through the air*
James Schroeder · · Sauk County, WI · Joined May 2002 · Points: 3,108
Fehim Hasecic wrote:

Like if someone is top roping and you decide to lead over them, because no time to waste 

To be clear.

  1. I asked to lead through on a route when their current climber was finished and they declined.
  2. I led a nearby route.
  3. I didn't knock any rocks down on them, and I wasn't in the vicinity of any obviously loose rock.
  4. I started a whole thread to apologize for my curt tone, but I won't apologize for climbing a neighboring route that was not an additional hazard.
But nice troll.
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,365
James Schroeder wrote:

To be clear.

  1. I asked to lead through on a route when their current climber was finished and they declined.
  2. I led a nearby route.
  3. I didn't knock any rocks down on them, and I wasn't in the vicinity of any obviously loose rock.
  4. I started a whole thread to apologize for my curt tone, but I won't apologize for climbing a neighboring route that was not an additional hazard.
But nice troll.

Dude, you totally fell into his trap. LOL!

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,365
Franck Vee wrote:

... or rappelling off the end, or putting just one strand into their rappelling device.

Rappelling off instead of lowering is just dumb, period, I'm pretty sure we had settle that debate already long ago (saved for a few dummies perhaps).


*Sound of a grenade lobbed through the air*

I have a friend who broke both legs and would disagree with that.

don'tchuffonme · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 25
OrganicChemistry wrote:

Oh ye kettle...

care to explain how you see  someone's skin color as a factor in this? 

Just want an explanation as to how this is appropriate. Mods? 

Relax braj.  He's a white guy pontificating as if he were as wise as Confucius.  Duh.  Is it now inappropriate to call a white guy white?  

"Mods?"  lol

JD · · Vanlifer · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 95
don'tchuffonme wrote:

Relax braj.  He's a white guy pontificating as if he were as wise as Confucius.  Duh.  Is it now inappropriate to call a white guy white?  

"Mods?"  lol

I don't find anything LOL about it 


Just wondering why does it matter if he's white, green or orange? 

JD · · Vanlifer · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 95
don'tchuffonme wrote:

Relax braj.  He's a white guy pontificating as if he were as wise as Confucius.  Duh.  Is it now inappropriate to call a white guy white?  

"Mods?"  lol

Or do you look at everyone and see a skin color? 

don'tchuffonme · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 25

I think the only person it matters to is you.

JD · · Vanlifer · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 95
don'tchuffonme wrote: I think the only person it matters to is you.

Then it matters. This type of thinking is what has lead this country down the path we are on. 

don'tchuffonme · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 25

What type of thinking is my thinking, what path are we on? 

JD · · Vanlifer · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 95
don'tchuffonme wrote:

Relax braj.  He's a white guy pontificating as if he were as wise as Confucius.  Duh.  Is it now inappropriate to call a white guy white?  

"Mods?"  lol

In your reply, skin color was still factor, yet to you, just to be blown off as no big deal because the color is white. 

Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
don'tchuffonme wrote: What type of thinking is my thinking, what path are we on? 

 I’m not going to make assumptions about you but  that’s the path we’re on. 

That path of assuming leads to protesting that a Starbucks manager is racist because he called the police after two black men would not leave his store. 

 The path we’re on turns racism into a news story which turns people against each other on Facebook. It ends with friends hating each other.
 Too bad the path doesn’t lead to white and black sitting down and discussing their concerns like adults.
John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,075
Bill Kirby wrote:

 I’m not going to make assumptions about you but  that’s the path we’re on. 

That path of assuming leads to protesting that a Starbucks manager is racist because he called the police after two black men would not leave his store. 

 The path we’re on turns racism into a news story which turns people against each other on Facebook. It ends with friends hating each other.
 Too bad the path doesn’t lead to white and black sitting down and discussing their concerns like adults.

This thread got messed up.......


"Racism" is at an all time high due to the media promoting it for sure.....

Nuff said, can we go back to the climbing discussion now. Y'all.... ;)
Phil Lauffen · · Innsbruck, AT · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 2,425
Tradiban wrote:

Not to mention people getting lowered off the end of a rope!

Hmmm, yes. That's definitely impossible to avoid.

Oh. Wait.

Tradiban wrote:
When will you stop making excuses and start taking responsibility for your own safety?
I didn't even have to swing to hit that out of the park.
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,365
Phil Lauffen wrote:

Hmmm, yes. That's definitely impossible to avoid.

Oh. Wait.

I didn't even have to swing to hit that out of the park.

It is the climbers responsibility to make sure that the rope they are climbing on is long enough to be lowered.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,365


Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 195
Bill Kirby wrote:

 I’m not going to make assumptions about you but  that’s the path we’re on. 

That path of assuming leads to protesting that a Starbucks manager is racist because he called the police after two black men would not leave his store. 

 The path we’re on turns racism into a news story which turns people against each other on Facebook. It ends with friends hating each other.
 Too bad the path doesn’t lead to white and black sitting down and discussing their concerns like adults.

Ok, I’ll bite.  Why do you think the manager called the police?  Do you honestly believe this would have happened if the men were white?  Two well dressed real estate agents were meeting a coworker at a Starbucks.  One asked to use the restroom and the manager asked them to leave then called the cops.  This sounds appropriate to you?  Have you seen the video?  Literally everyone in the store was pointing out how messed up the situation was.

The problem is that people are losing their ability to empathize with anyone remotely different than them and are backing themselves into corners and choosing their “teams.”  Take a second to imagine what it would be like to be black in America, where you will be perceived as a thug or a threat no matter your income level, how you dress, or how you behave.  Where you have to worry about being shot by police when they pull you over and when they pull you over for questioning on the campus where you teach.  If that’s not racist, I don’t know what is.
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,365
Ted Pinson wrote:

Ok, I’ll bite.  Why do you think the manager called the police?  Do you honestly believe this would have happened if the men were white?  Two well dressed real estate agents were meeting a coworker at a Starbucks.  One asked to use the restroom and the manager asked them to leave then called the cops.  This sounds appropriate to you?  Have you seen the video?  Literally everyone in the store was pointing out how messed up the situation was.

The problem is that people are losing their ability to empathize with anyone remotely different than them and are backing themselves into corners and choosing their “teams.”  Take a second to imagine what it would be like to be black in America, where you will be perceived as a thug or a threat no matter your income level, how you dress, or how you behave.  Where you have to worry about being shot by police when they pull you over and when they pull you over for questioning on the campus where you teach.  If that’s not racist, I don’t know what is.

They weren't asked to leave because they were black, they were asked to leave because they were real estate agents. They were probably taking over too much space on the community board with their business cards.

Odd L · · Trondheim, NO · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0
Tradiban wrote
So, what's your philosophy regarding your own safety while climbing? What do you do in order to not die?

I just stay in the meadow and spray in stead of climbing :-)


I have done a bunch of rope soloing, and have found that this is a good way to thoroughly drill rope systems and routines.  It forces you into a very self-centred state of mind and let's you make your own choices, find your own limits and your own particular strengths and weaknesses... IF you reflect on it a bit at least.

This might seem a bit silly to everyone, over the years I have developed a sort of gut feeling which I actually rely on quite a bit. If something feels 'off' somehow, I'd much rather back down. This is actually some variant of doubt I guess, but in the end I don't mind topping out or not and would rather back off than approach the true limit.

At any rate, as with all things, I think there is a bit of luck involved in not dying, but I feel as if though that percentage is close to life on the horizontal plane.  
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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