Mountain Project Logo

What's the consensus here on "Gear Raffles"?



FOR SALE/WANTED WARNING: Mountain Project cannot verify the identity or trustworthiness of any member. Fraud has happened.
  • Do not use PayPal "gift" payments, wire transfers, Western Union, etc.
  • Use PayPal credit card payments, or other systems that protect you from fraud.
Original Post — This topic is locked and closed to new replies
Mark L · · New York, NY · Joined May 2017 · Points: 0

I have a brand new rope, and a pair of shoes that are both in the original packaging with tags on them.  I saw how some other people responded to the last raffle, so I wasn't sure if I should attempt it.  I would only collect around 75% of what I paid for them (even less if they are available on sale anywhere), so I wouldn't be making any profit; I would be losing money, but I'm not using the items so that doesn't bother me.  

I was thinking about having someone else (a well known MP user that has been here forever) conduct the drawing and pull the winning names out of a hat or something, that way there is no doubt about the legitimacy of the drawing.  You all could vote to select the individual or something; I would want it to be a very well known long time MP user.  Either that, or I could record the drawing.  I could even stream it live.  

I like the idea of the raffle, but I realize that the last one raised some legitimate questions and concerns.  Any input/opinions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks everyone!

David Pagel · · Milwaukee · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 175

I didn’t see issues in the past few, personally. I’m all for them! Great opportunity for someone to get great gear for next to nothing. 

Jack Stephenson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 25

Do it my guy!

King Tut · · Citrus Heights · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 430

I really don't like this trend of raffles. Too much potential for abuse and only a matter of time where someone with multiple avatars on this forum figures out how to abuse it.

If you want 75% of what you paid just list them, they'll sell.

Briggs Lazalde · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0

"Fuck it! We'll do it live!"

Mark L · · New York, NY · Joined May 2017 · Points: 0
King Tut wrote: I really don't like this trend of raffles. Too much potential for abuse and only a matter of time where someone with multiple avatars on this forum figures out how to abuse it.

If you want 75% of what you paid just list them, they'll sell.

What else could I do to make it "abuse proof"?  (Other than the things I already mentioned).  I have tried selling them, but haven't had any luck.  I think that raffling them off would be good for both parties; I get a portion of my money back, and someone wins a $290 rope or a $185 pair of shoes for the price of a Big Mac meal.

Piotr Sobczak · · Laredo, TX · Joined Jan 2018 · Points: 0

I'm in. Jeez, really that much hatred around raffles? What happened to believing in people? 

Peter J · · Davis, CA · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 145
Piotr Sobczak wrote: I'm in. Jeez, really that much hatred around raffles? What happened to believing in people? 

Ummm, I don't know--slavery, the holocaust... the smith rock draw thief. 

Roamin' Buffalo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 50

I say raffle them. If people don't like it they don't have to participate... Just like everything else in life

Edited: what diameter rope and what size shoes? I'll take a spot in that raffle

Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10

Your rope isn't selling because you're asking the same price for it that it's available for currently at REI. https://www.rei.com/product/898405/edelrid-topaz-pro-colortec-92mm-x-70m-dry-rope. Plus REI members get 10% dividend on that.

Same goes for your TC Pros at $140. I know it sucks to buy gear and not use it but it's pretty trivial to find a pair of TC pros from a retailer directly for that price or less. 

I think these raffles are hokey and don't really belong here in the "for sale" section of MP. If you want to sell 2nd hand gear then price it appropriately until it sells. I've never had a problem finding buyers on MP. 

Mark L · · New York, NY · Joined May 2017 · Points: 0
Señor Arroz wrote: Your rope isn't selling because you're asking the same price for it that it's available for currently at REI. https://www.rei.com/product/898405/edelrid-topaz-pro-colortec-92mm-x-70m-dry-rope. Plus REI members get 10% dividend on that.

Same goes for your TC Pros at $140. I know it sucks to buy gear and not use it but it's pretty trivial to find a pair of TC pros from a retailer directly for that price or less.

I think these raffles are hokey and don't really belong here in the "for sale" section of MP. If you want to sell 2nd hand gear then price it appropriately until it sells. I've never had a problem finding buyers on MP. 

Was gonna raffle for a bit less anyways.  It also gives people a chance to get a brand new high end Rope/shoes for less than $20.


I was thinking that the shoe raffle might not work though, as they are a specific size.  It wouldn’t attract as many people for that reason.  
I was also going to cover most/all of the cost to ship the rope.  You would have to pay taxes when purchasing from REI as well.  
Thanks for the advice though, I appreciate it.
Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Mark L wrote:

Was gonna raffle for a bit less anyways.  It also gives people a chance to get a brand new high end Rope/shoes for less than $20.


I was thinking that the shoe raffle might not work though, as they are a specific size.  It wouldn’t attract as many people for that reason.  
I was also going to cover most/all of the cost to ship the rope.  You would have to pay taxes when purchasing from REI as well.  
Thanks for the advice though, I appreciate it.

Maybe I should be more clear. My own objection to the raffle concept is that this section of MP is dedicated to buying and selling (and giving away) gear. If you want to hold raffles I think you should do it somewhere else, not in this section.
Also, as discussed in the other thread, it's illegal. I don't think you, personally, need to worry about the cops busting down the door but I kind of like MP and don't really want to see them facing some legal nightmares over being seen in the eyes of the law as an illegal gambling host. 

Brad Johnson · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0
Señor Arroz wrote:

Maybe I should be more clear. My own objection to the raffle concept is that this section of MP is dedicated to buying and selling (and giving away) gear. If you want to hold raffles I think you should do it somewhere else, not in this section.
Also, as discussed in the other thread, it's illegal. I don't think you, personally, need to worry about the cops busting down the door but I kind of like MP and don't really want to see them facing some legal nightmares over being seen in the eyes of the law as an illegal gambling host. 



Ditto

Mark L · · New York, NY · Joined May 2017 · Points: 0

Thanks for clarifying; you can’t please everyone sometimes.  Personally, I think this is the perfect place to conduct a raffle; people come here looking for deals on gear, so an inexpensive raffle interests a lot of users.  They could do a “raffle thread”, but you would not have as many views.  

It isn’t illegal to do it where I live, and even if it were, the cops aren’t going to arrest and charge someone for getting rid of $200 worth of their own property.  MP can’t be targeted either, because they don’t facilitate any sales/transactions.  It’s just a board for interacting with other climbers.  All exchanges are done legally via PayPal.  

I’m still undecided, but I am learning towards giving it a go.  I’m sorry that you feel the way you do, but you don’t speak for everyone here.  Thanks for the input though.  

Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Mark L wrote: 
It isn’t illegal to do it where I live, and even if it were, the cops aren’t going to arrest and charge someone for getting rid of $200 worth of their own property.  MP can’t be targeted either, because they don’t facilitate any sales/transactions.  It’s just a board for interacting with other climbers.  All exchanges are done legally via PayPal.  

I’m still undecided, but I am learning towards giving it a go.  I’m sorry that you feel the way you do, but you don’t speak for everyone here.  Thanks for the input though.  

Just to be clear, any individual or for profit entity doing online raffles is illegal in every state in the US. The law is a little different around non-profits doing it for charity. You've made it clear you're not a charity.

You don't know what Mountain Project's legal exposure is, nor are you the one bearing that burden in the end.

I think it's irresponsible for you to know this and proceed. 

Nick Wilder · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2005 · Points: 3,441

Sorry folks, but it appears clear that raffles are not legal, I don't want MP to be facilitating illegal activity (even if the facilitating is not technically illegal - I'm not going to bother to find out).

Please do not conduct any future raffles on MP.  When they're brought to my attention, I'll have to end them, which will make a mess for everyone involved.

Thanks.

Mark L · · New York, NY · Joined May 2017 · Points: 0

Got it Nick.  Thanks for clarifying.  I'll just have to sell it the old fashioned way.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

FOR SALE / FOR FREE / WANT TO BUY
Post a Reply to "What's the consensus here on "Gear Raffles"?"

This topic is locked and closed to new replies.